A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

What you think about how you think.
Omniverse
Poster
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:09 am

A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Omniverse » Thu May 25, 2017 5:40 pm

Many people have questions in regards to what consciousness is and what role it plays. I think a good way to answer one of these questions is by seeing how the brain responds in regards to consciousness. What I mean by this is asking people questions. For example, many altruistic people would be willing to give up their own consciousness and become biological machines if it meant helping others out more in life and accomplishing other selfless endeavors to a higher degree. However, if you were to ask a self-centered individual if he/she would be willing to give up his/her own consciousness if it meant him/her getting more of what he/she wanted in life whether it be power, fame, or success, then I bet most of these people would say they would never give up their own consciousness. They would say that they wish to enjoy their fame, power, and success and that there would be no point in them getting what they wanted if they could not enjoy it.

If it's not for the enjoyment, then it would be for some type of beautiful experience such as merely being aware that he/she has those things he/she wanted in life. These people would report that there would simply be no point in them getting what they want in life as nothing more than biological machines with no inner experience. Therefore, it seems as though consciousness serves some sort of selfish purpose because those who are not selfish would be willing to give up their own consciousness for the sake of helping others as well as other selfless endeavors. However, I am going to take it a step further here. According to the materialistic worldview that skeptics hold, our selfish endeavors serve a survival purpose. They enhance our chance for survival. Therefore, according to this worldview, consciousness would have evolved to enhance our chance for survival since, according to my post, it serves a selfish purpose.

But if consciousness really is about enhancing our chance for survival and nothing more, then you would not expect what it is I am about to explain. So, let me explain. If I asked one of these selfish people whether they would be willing to give up their own consciousness if it meant their own survival being enhanced exponentially somehow, then I bet they would still say that they would not give up their own consciousness. But this isn't how the brain should respond because, if being selfish is all about enhancing our survival, then these selfish people should be willing to give up their own consciousness in such a scenario. This says to me that consciousness serves a selfish purpose that transcends the mere enhancing of our survival. In other words, there is something "more" to consciousness than what the skeptics make it out to be.

Lastly, what I meant by consciousness would be experience. It is our inner world of experience. Besides, if consciousness is nothing more than just knowing things, then, since knowing things enhances our chance for survival, you would expect these selfish people to give up their own consciousness in the scenario I posited in my paragraph above. Yet, they still wouldn't. I also said that consciousness serves a selfish purpose. But I am not implying that all people are selfish here. What I am saying here is that, even if you were the most altruistic person in the world, that consciousness has evolved for a selfish purpose that transcends the mere enhancing of our survival.
Last edited by Omniverse on Thu May 25, 2017 6:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Poodle
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8101
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Regular sleeper
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Poodle » Thu May 25, 2017 5:44 pm

Methinks you have no idea what 'consciousness' means. Well, when I say 'methinks', I actually mean 'meknows'.

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3063
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: His Beatitude

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu May 25, 2017 5:48 pm

Do you mean "self-aware" ?
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

Omniverse
Poster
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:09 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Omniverse » Thu May 25, 2017 5:53 pm

Poodle wrote:Methinks you have no idea what 'consciousness' means. Well, when I say 'methinks', I actually mean 'meknows'.


What I meant by consciousness would be experience. It is our inner world of experience. Besides, if consciousness is nothing more than just knowing things as you are implying, then, since knowing things enhances our chance for survival, you would expect these selfish people to give up their own consciousness in the scenario I posited in my final paragraph. Yet, they still wouldn't.

User avatar
Poodle
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8101
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Regular sleeper
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Poodle » Thu May 25, 2017 6:09 pm

What a load of bollocks. There are hundreds - thousands - hundreds of thousands - of cases of people sacrificing themselves for the sake of others. End of that premise, then. Read a taddy bit of history and then come back with a better argument.

Omniverse
Poster
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:09 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Omniverse » Thu May 25, 2017 6:12 pm

Poodle wrote:What a load of bollocks. There are hundreds - thousands - hundreds of thousands - of cases of people sacrificing themselves for the sake of others. End of that premise, then. Read a taddy bit of history and then come back with a better argument.


I already said there were. I have no idea how your post here has any relevance to anything I've said. I say that consciousness serves a selfish purpose and that people can still be altruistic anyway. I say that, even if you were the most altruistic person in the world, that consciousness has evolved for a selfish purpose that transcends the mere enhancing of our survival.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19432
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu May 25, 2017 7:12 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:Do you mean "self-aware" ?

How can someone who's barely self-aware, like OP, expound on being self-aware?
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Dimebag
Regular Poster
Posts: 699
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:05 pm

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Dimebag » Thu May 25, 2017 8:17 pm

A fault in reasoning here is, even altruism can serve a selfish purpose, as it is no doubt selected for for the purposes of group survival.

Furthermore, consciousness itself serves not only selfish purposes, but provides massive advantages to an organism, beyond the experiencing of pleasure or pain. Pain is a motivation tool of our bodies to ensure self preservation, and the conscious awareness of that pain allows us to reflect on the causes of it, beyond a simple fight or flight response.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26349
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

OCD and Trolling our forum

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri May 26, 2017 5:34 am

Matt MSV7 wrote:For example, many altruistic people would be willing to give up their own consciousness and become biological machines.
Bull-shit. Name one example. You are simply trolling again.

Matt MSV7 wrote:According to the materialistic worldview that skeptics hold....
Bull-shit. Skeptics don't hold views. Skeptics review other people's claims using science and critical thinking. You are simply trolling again.

scepticism
noun
1. a sceptical attitude; doubt as to the truth of something


Go away and stop trolling this forum

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29080
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Gord » Sat May 27, 2017 1:41 am

Omniverse wrote:Lastly, what I meant by consciousness would be experience.

Really? Then why didn't you just say so?

Here, I'll rewrite your post for you.

Omniverse wrote:Many people have questions in regards to what experience is and what role it plays. I think a good way to answer one of these questions is by seeing how the brain responds in regards to experience. What I mean by this is asking people questions. For example, many altruistic people would be willing to give up their own experience and become biological machines if it meant helping others out more in life and accomplishing other selfless endeavors to a higher degree. However, if you were to ask a self-centered individual if he/she would be willing to give up his/her own experience if it meant him/her getting more of what he/she wanted in life whether it be power, fame, or success, then I bet most of these people would say they would never give up their own experience. They would say that they wish to enjoy their fame, power, and success and that there would be no point in them getting what they wanted if they could not enjoy it.

If it's not for the enjoyment, then it would be for some type of beautiful experience such as merely being aware that he/she has those things he/she wanted in life. These people would report that there would simply be no point in them getting what they want in life as nothing more than biological machines with no inner experience. Therefore, it seems as though experience serves some sort of selfish purpose because those who are not selfish would be willing to give up their own experience for the sake of helping others as well as other selfless endeavors. However, I am going to take it a step further here. According to the materialistic worldview that skeptics hold, our selfish endeavors serve a survival purpose. They enhance our chance for survival. Therefore, according to this worldview, experience would have evolved to enhance our chance for survival since, according to my post, it serves a selfish purpose.

But if experience really is about enhancing our chance for survival and nothing more, then you would not expect what it is I am about to explain. So, let me explain. If I asked one of these selfish people whether they would be willing to give up their own experience if it meant their own survival being enhanced exponentially somehow, then I bet they would still say that they would not give up their own experience. But this isn't how the brain should respond because, if being selfish is all about enhancing our survival, then these selfish people should be willing to give up their own experience in such a scenario. This says to me that experience serves a selfish purpose that transcends the mere enhancing of our survival. In other words, there is something "more" to experience than what the skeptics make it out to be.

Lastly, what I meant by experience would be experience. It is our inner world of experience. Besides, if experience is nothing more than just knowing things, then, since knowing things enhances our chance for survival, you would expect these selfish people to give up their own experience in the scenario I posited in my paragraph above. Yet, they still wouldn't. I also said that experience serves a selfish purpose. But I am not implying that all people are selfish here. What I am saying here is that, even if you were the most altruistic person in the world, that experience has evolved for a selfish purpose that transcends the mere enhancing of our survival.

I think you're making a fundamental mistake in your understanding of what "survival" means. Mothers often express willingness to sacrifice their own lives to save their children. It's a part of human nature that we all have, regardless of gender. We feel that way because we have evolved to struggle to ensure the survival of our genes. And our genes aren't just those we carry within our bodies, but also those in our children, our family, even our neighbours within our extended tribes. That's where evolution has led. We have a hidden predisposition to sacrifice ourselves to protect those genes. But genes are also a hidden quality, so our predisposition for self-sacrifice can be extended to others outside of our immediate gene pool through psychological misdirection: If we come to identify with another living thing, we can come to be protective of that thing even to the extreme point of giving up our own lives to ensure its survival. This can extend even to the vague notion of "those back home" or "the common good".
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

SteveKlinko
Poster
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:14 pm
Contact:

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby SteveKlinko » Sun May 28, 2017 11:30 am

I think that the post touches on something that we have all overlooked: Maybe the ultimate goal of the Universe is for the Evolution of Consciousness. The Physical Human Brain might just be the Soil that a Conscious Mind can grow in.

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29080
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Gord » Sun May 28, 2017 12:50 pm

The universe doesn't have a goal, in the same way a peanut butter sandwich doesn't.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26349
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon May 29, 2017 12:26 am

SteveKlinko wrote:I think that the post touches on something that we have all overlooked: Maybe the ultimate goal of the Universe is for the Evolution of Consciousness. The Physical Human Brain might just be the Soil that a Conscious Mind can grow in.
Gord is absolutely right. The Universe has no purpose. Evolution has no purpose.

If there were a niche advantage for a species to dumb down then that's just as viable as evolving bigger brains. In fact, that's what went on with migratory birds. They saved weight and increased duration by evolving smaller brains.

Homo erectus actually had a bigger brain than modern humans. Our brains are just wired differently.

Confidencia
Poster
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 9:43 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Confidencia » Tue May 30, 2017 11:45 am

Omniverse wrote:
Poodle wrote:Methinks you have no idea what 'consciousness' means. Well, when I say 'methinks', I actually mean 'meknows'.


What I meant by consciousness would be experience. It is our inner world of experience. Besides, if consciousness is nothing more than just knowing things as you are implying, then, since knowing things enhances our chance for survival, you would expect these selfish people to give up their own consciousness in the scenario I posited in my final paragraph. Yet, they still wouldn't.



The "people" or "person" if you like is nothing but a projection of your inner. You talk as if it has some sense of autonomy. It is a figment of your imagination. Consciousness serves to protect, perpetuate and expand itself. You see yourself and everybody else in it. That being said, do you think there is any choice in the matter?

User avatar
gorgeous
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4123
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby gorgeous » Tue May 30, 2017 1:05 pm

Gord wrote:The universe doesn't have a goal, in the same way a peanut butter sandwich doesn't.

:lol:
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26349
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed May 31, 2017 1:00 am

Confidencia wrote: The "people" or "person" if you like is nothing but a projection of your inner.....

You should go see more autopsies. :lol:

Confidencia
Poster
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 9:43 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Confidencia » Wed May 31, 2017 10:43 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote: The "people" or "person" if you like is nothing but a projection of your inner.....

You should go see more autopsies. :lol:


And what difference would that make? The meal you ate late week, can you find any trace of it?

Confidencia
Poster
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 9:43 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Confidencia » Wed May 31, 2017 10:45 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:I think that the post touches on something that we have all overlooked: Maybe the ultimate goal of the Universe is for the Evolution of Consciousness. The Physical Human Brain might just be the Soil that a Conscious Mind can grow in.



This is all in your dreaming the universe is your own private little affair. It all happens in your mind.

User avatar
Cadmusteeth
Regular Poster
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:43 pm
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Cadmusteeth » Wed May 31, 2017 11:38 pm

Confidencia wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote: The "people" or "person" if you like is nothing but a projection of your inner.....

You should go see more autopsies. :lol:


And what difference would that make? The meal you ate late week, can you find any trace of it?

Apparently nothing as far as you're concerned.
You could, but I don't think you'd want to.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26349
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:06 am

Confidencia wrote: And what difference would that make? The meal you ate late week, can you find any trace of it?
Yes dear. My body incorporates some of the specific pre-existing proteins and complex molecules. Didn't you know? :lol:

Confidencia
Poster
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 9:43 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Confidencia » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:56 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote: And what difference would that make? The meal you ate late week, can you find any trace of it?
Yes dear. My body incorporates some of the specific pre-existing proteins and complex molecules. Didn't you know? :lol:


Of course I knew. Hence the reason why I said last week. Not yesterday. Up date your text books Matthew.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19630
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:41 am

:|
Hi, Io the lurker.

User avatar
Cadmusteeth
Regular Poster
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:43 pm
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Cadmusteeth » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:48 pm

Yep, that blew my mind too.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26349
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:20 am

Cadmusteeth wrote:Yep, that blew my mind too.
I really don't think Confidencia can remember anything he says, from more than five minutes ago. In the other thread I am being abused for reading science books, while Confidencia, in the very same post is claiming quantum mechanics from science books explains his claim about human spirit souls.

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29080
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Gord » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:40 pm

Confidencia wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote: And what difference would that make? The meal you ate late week, can you find any trace of it?
Yes dear. My body incorporates some of the specific pre-existing proteins and complex molecules. Didn't you know? :lol:

Of course I knew. Hence the reason why I said last week. Not yesterday. Up date your text books Matthew.

Chemistry can find traces of what an adult ate as a child in order to determine where he or she grew up.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

Confidencia
Poster
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 9:43 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Confidencia » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:03 am

Gord wrote:
Confidencia wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote: And what difference would that make? The meal you ate late week, can you find any trace of it?
Yes dear. My body incorporates some of the specific pre-existing proteins and complex molecules. Didn't you know? :lol:

Of course I knew. Hence the reason why I said last week. Not yesterday. Up date your text books Matthew.

Chemistry can find traces of what an adult ate as a child in order to determine where he or she grew up.


In its molecular form, no doubt.

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29080
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Gord » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:16 pm

Confidencia wrote:
Gord wrote:
Confidencia wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote: And what difference would that make? The meal you ate late week, can you find any trace of it?

Yes dear. My body incorporates some of the specific pre-existing proteins and complex molecules. Didn't you know? :lol:

Of course I knew. Hence the reason why I said last week. Not yesterday. Up date your text books Matthew.

Chemistry can find traces of what an adult ate as a child in order to determine where he or she grew up.

In its molecular form, no doubt.

"In its molecular form"? I know what that means to me, but what exactly does that mean to you? Do you dispute the idea that chemistry can find traces of a meal?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

Confidencia
Poster
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 9:43 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Confidencia » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:02 am

Gord wrote:
Confidencia wrote:
Gord wrote:
Confidencia wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote: And what difference would that make? The meal you ate late week, can you find any trace of it?

Yes dear. My body incorporates some of the specific pre-existing proteins and complex molecules. Didn't you know? :lol:

Of course I knew. Hence the reason why I said last week. Not yesterday. Up date your text books Matthew.

Chemistry can find traces of what an adult ate as a child in order to determine where he or she grew up.

In its molecular form, no doubt.

"In its molecular form"? I know what that means to me, but what exactly does that mean to you? Do you dispute the idea that chemistry can find traces of a meal?


No I do not dispute that chemistry can find traces of a meal. In regards to the material anything can be traced using the correct protocol. My initial question was can you find any trace of the meal as it were before you ate it after you have eaten it? I need not have said last week, I could have said the next day since the moment it has gone beyond the mouth it is unrecognisable.

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29080
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Gord » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:42 pm

Confidencia wrote:
Gord wrote:
Confidencia wrote:
Gord wrote:
Confidencia wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote: And what difference would that make? The meal you ate late week, can you find any trace of it?

Yes dear. My body incorporates some of the specific pre-existing proteins and complex molecules. Didn't you know? :lol:

Of course I knew. Hence the reason why I said last week. Not yesterday. Up date your text books Matthew.

Chemistry can find traces of what an adult ate as a child in order to determine where he or she grew up.

In its molecular form, no doubt.

"In its molecular form"? I know what that means to me, but what exactly does that mean to you? Do you dispute the idea that chemistry can find traces of a meal?

No I do not dispute that chemistry can find traces of a meal. In regards to the material anything can be traced using the correct protocol. My initial question was can you find any trace of the meal as it were before you ate it after you have eaten it? I need not have said last week, I could have said the next day since the moment it has gone beyond the mouth it is unrecognisable.

It's clearly still recognisable if you can find traces of it, otherwise you wouldn't know you'd found them and then you wouldn't be able to say "we found traces of what this person ate".
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10167
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:45 pm

"No I do not dispute that chemistry can find traces of a meal." /// Thats exactly what you initially denied. Unless you are totally vapid, you think and said that for "reasons"==which you agree have been found to be false.

Have you changed your mind on any issue?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29080
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Gord » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:19 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Have you changed your mind on any issue?

Changed his what? :P
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2042
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:02 am

Confidencia wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote: The "people" or "person" if you like is nothing but a projection of your inner.....

You should go see more autopsies. :lol:


And what difference would that make? The meal you ate late week, can you find any trace of it?

Absolutely. However, I'm manifestly uninterested in unearthing my septic tank and levering the top off, then trolling through a bunch of human excrement, testing it all, in order to find the exact meal to which you're referring. Frankly, it sounds like a senseless experiment with no real purpose.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2042
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:04 am

Confidencia wrote:
SteveKlinko wrote:I think that the post touches on something that we have all overlooked: Maybe the ultimate goal of the Universe is for the Evolution of Consciousness. The Physical Human Brain might just be the Soil that a Conscious Mind can grow in.



This is all in your dreaming the universe is your own private little affair. It all happens in your mind.

Your solipsism theory doesn't hold water. I know for a fact I certainly wouldn't have invented you.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2042
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:17 am

Omniverse wrote:Many people have questions in regards to what consciousness is and what role it plays. I think a good way to answer one of these questions is by seeing how the brain responds in regards to consciousness.

This is where I stopped reading. From now on, every time I see a dualist, I'm just going to post the following emoji, because I am, after all, an unrepentant paronomasiac.
:duel:

And, frankly, you folks are like the Black Knight. You have nothing with which to fight, yet you keep trying.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

Confidencia
Poster
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 9:43 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Confidencia » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:22 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Confidencia wrote:
SteveKlinko wrote:I think that the post touches on something that we have all overlooked: Maybe the ultimate goal of the Universe is for the Evolution of Consciousness. The Physical Human Brain might just be the Soil that a Conscious Mind can grow in.



This is all in your dreaming the universe is your own private little affair. It all happens in your mind.

Your solipsism theory doesn't hold water. I know for a fact I certainly wouldn't have invented you.


Whether you care to see it or not I exist in your mind as an image this is a fact. And whilst we are on the subject of fact as a matter of fact the only thing you know for sure is that you exist everything else you claim to know is uncertain. On the highest level, consciousness it is all your doing, on the lowest level, the mind you do nothing. Everything is done to you not by you.
Last edited by Confidencia on Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Confidencia
Poster
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 9:43 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Confidencia » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:50 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Omniverse wrote:Many people have questions in regards to what consciousness is and what role it plays. I think a good way to answer one of these questions is by seeing how the brain responds in regards to consciousness.

This is where I stopped reading. From now on, every time I see a dualist, I'm just going to post the following emoji, because I am, after all, an unrepentant paronomasiac.
:duel:

And, frankly, you folks are like the Black Knight. You have nothing with which to fight, yet you keep trying.



In reality there's no such thing as duality but the fact that you see something other than yourself is proof of its evidence in consciousness. If it wasn't the case you would not be in a position to reply.

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2042
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:41 pm

Confidencia wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:Your solipsism theory doesn't hold water. I know for a fact I certainly wouldn't have invented you.
Whether you care to see it or not I exist in your mind as an image this is a fact.
No, it's not. I have no image of you in my mind, since I have no idea what you look like.

Confidencia wrote:And whilst we are on the subject of fact as a matter of fact the only thing you know for sure is that you exist everything else you claim to know is uncertain.
Nonsense. In my conscious experience, everything with which I interact and everyone with whom I interact exists.

Confidencia wrote:On the highest level, consciousness it is all your doing, on the lowest level, the mind you do nothing. Everything is done to you not by you.
More nonsense. Define the italicized terms, please. Without the brain, there is no consciousness, although brain dysfunction caused by injury, birth defect, or disease can create a situation where there exists a brain with no consciousness. But consciousness is not independent of a fully-functional brain. As I said, dualism is BS.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2042
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:42 pm

Confidencia wrote:In reality there's no such thing as duality but the fact that you see something other than yourself is proof of its evidence in consciousness. If it wasn't the case you would not be in a position to reply.
From this, it's uncertain whether you have difficulties with English, logic, or both. Your comment is word salad.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

Confidencia
Poster
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 9:43 am

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Confidencia » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:18 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Confidencia wrote:In reality there's no such thing as duality but the fact that you see something other than yourself is proof of its evidence in consciousness. If it wasn't the case you would not be in a position to reply.
From this, it's uncertain whether you have difficulties with English, logic, or both. Your comment is word salad.


With the right dressing a word salad can be most satisfying.
Take the word bread for instance, it means nothing on its own but once you have eaten it there is understanding. To understand there need not be any logic of language for reason, a dose of intelligent understanding will do.

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2042
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: A new way to determine the role consciousness plays

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:02 pm

No. Word salad is just sheer nonsense without meaning. That ^^^ is gobbledy-gook.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein


Return to “Brain, Mind, & Consciousness”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest