Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

What you think about how you think.
User avatar
Scott Mayers
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 pm
Custom Title: Deep

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby Scott Mayers » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:52 pm

SweetPea wrote:
clarifyit4me wrote:This is all well and good but it does not help you out of the hole you have dug for yourself. First you need to get out and redeem yourself. And you had better be quick otherwise the cap stone will be put in place and you will be forever deeply entangled in the nonsense of your own making.
Finding fault in the manifestation? :lol: Your world is only a reflection of yourself.

I don't think he is getting what you're putting down here. I mean, I am not getting what this 'SweetPea' part of my brain is trying to say! ;)
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby SweetPea » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:12 pm

I'm feeding him back his own nonsense.
More
Where is your proof that the others exist ? You cannot even prove your own existence conclusively. The others only exist in your mind.

Yet he goes on.
Last edited by SweetPea on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

User avatar
Scott Mayers
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 pm
Custom Title: Deep

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby Scott Mayers » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:15 pm

SweetPea wrote:I'm feeding him back his own nonsense.

I mean, I am feeding myself back my own nonsense!Please stop it, me...I'm sick of seeing this thread make me look inconsistent to myself! ... wait...well, why should that matter? There is only me to all of reality to judge myself! Cool! :nownow:
Last edited by Scott Mayers on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby SweetPea » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:17 pm

Where is your proof that the others exist ? You cannot even prove your own existence conclusively. The others only exist in your mind.
He doesn't accept that any of it applies to him - it only applies to other people.
He's only got that schtick. It gets boring pretty quick.
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

User avatar
Scott Mayers
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 pm
Custom Title: Deep

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby Scott Mayers » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:25 pm

SweetPea wrote:
Where is your proof that the others exist ? You cannot even prove your own existence conclusively. The others only exist in your mind.
He doesn't accept that any of it applies to him - it only applies to other people.
He's only got that schtick. It gets boring pretty quick.
ech hem
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

clarifyit4me
Regular Poster
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm
Custom Title: Apply

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby clarifyit4me » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:53 pm

SweetPea wrote:
Where is your proof that the others exist ? You cannot even prove your own existence conclusively. The others only exist in your mind.
He doesn't accept that any of it applies to him - it only applies to other people.
He's only got that schtick. It gets boring pretty quick.


The problem with you Sweetiepea is that you do not really understand much of what is being said by me or indeed anyone else on this forum. If you understood what is being expounded here, you would have realised long ago that I'm not putting myself above you or anyone else. There is only consciousness you and I are both points of this consciousness. There may be differences but no separation. It is only the idea that you have of yourself that differs. You see yourself as a body/mind hence the reason why you identify with its content.

I'm simply saying how can this be you? This body/mind and its content; if you can see it, experience it and feel it; examine it, conceptualise it and rationalise it. it cannot be you. You are not in amongst all of this. You cannot find the body of a torch in its beam, it is prior. You are prior to consciousness. And if you understood every post that I've ever post it does not deviate from this point, unless I come down to the level of delinquency which always seems to be the case with you. You cannot converse very well without your ego in-tow. I cannot conclusively prove my existence, simply because I know I'm beyond this consciousness.

An embodied existence is not the only existence. Awareness does not have a body. You become aware of consciousness not conscious that you are aware - that is only a thought in consciousness, the aforementioned is a fact.
Last edited by clarifyit4me on Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

clarifyit4me
Regular Poster
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm
Custom Title: Apply

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby clarifyit4me » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:05 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:
SweetPea wrote:I'm feeding him back his own nonsense.

I mean, I am feeding myself back my own nonsense!Please stop it, me...I'm sick of seeing this thread make me look inconsistent to myself! ... wait...well, why should that matter? There is only me to all of reality to judge myself! Cool! :nownow:



Says Mr Mayers who had to hop next door for conformation of a contradiction.

User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby SweetPea » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:51 pm

clarifyit4me wrote:
SweetPea wrote:
Where is your proof that the others exist ? You cannot even prove your own existence conclusively. The others only exist in your mind.
He doesn't accept that any of it applies to him - it only applies to other people.
He's only got that schtick. It gets boring pretty quick.


The problem with you Sweetiepea is that you do not really understand much of what is being said by me or indeed anyone else on this forum. If you understood what is being expounded here, you would have realised long ago that I'm not putting myself above you or anyone else.
Sure you do. In every post. "The others here" do not realize, but you do. :lol:
I know I'm beyond

The problem with you Sweetiepea
There you go again, finding fault in your world. I now feed your idiocy back to you
Your world is only a reflection of yourself.

There is only consciousness you and I are both points of this consciousness. There may be differences but no separation. It is only the idea that you have of yourself that differs. You see yourself as a body/mind hence the reason why you identify with its content.
And you said you did this and that to me, and will do this or that.
I'm simply saying how can this be you?
See above.
This body/mind and its content; if you can see it, experience it and feel it; examine it, conceptualise it and rationalise it. it cannot be you.
See above.

This one is good
unless I come down to the level of delinquency which always seems to be the case with you.

that I'm not putting myself above you or anyone else
:)


You're delusional in that you think everyone else here is not aware of the cheaply gotten concepts that you mangle in every of your posts. Why not go back to telling us about the 5 elements from your feng shui class, Toots?


.
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

clarifyit4me
Regular Poster
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm
Custom Title: Apply

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby clarifyit4me » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:09 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:clarify4me,

If you are reading this and all the world is only true as you read this, then you shouldn't find a need to continue reading, let alone start, as you would already know before hand what the content of what I'm saying is correct since I must only exist in your mind.

If you follow this and are discovering what I'm writing as news to you, you have evidence that there is at least, an 'other' truth beyond yourself. Thus, it is not true to assert the Solipsist position. Mind you, as I've pointed out in the other thread (Nature of Contradiction), even though this is contradictory, I'm sure that if you recognize it, you will be motivated to find resolution to it by discovering a place where you can both appear to be the only subject in reality as well as other subjects external to yourself. ;)


First and foremost, there is no free will, hence the illusion of doer-ship. What is being done happens by itself. And it is not necessary and neither is it a requirement to know the details of what is in the mind. To know the mind as a disturbance is enough. In consciousness the detail can only be relative to the absolute, meaning the world is true as far as the appearance goes; but it cannot be. You have to be there before the world can appears. If you trace yourself back earnestly, you will know that you were before the world.

There is no truth beyond the self, you only know what is in your conscious, whatever you postulate beyond this is inference.

And the only thing I recognise here is that you do not know what constitute a contradiction conclusively.
Why would I put my trust in someone who is not even sure what constitutes a contradiction?
Playing around with words like a child plays around with building blocks will not help. You are to rapped up in concepts and theories
That have no relevance to now. All these are in the mind, you body is in the mind, YOU ARE NOT. When you go to sleep, the world disappears, when you wake it reappears. Although you are not conscious of a world in your sleep, you are alive.

clarifyit4me
Regular Poster
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm
Custom Title: Apply

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby clarifyit4me » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:14 pm

SweetPea wrote:
clarifyit4me wrote:
SweetPea wrote:
Where is your proof that the others exist ? You cannot even prove your own existence conclusively. The others only exist in your mind.
He doesn't accept that any of it applies to him - it only applies to other people.
He's only got that schtick. It gets boring pretty quick.


The problem with you Sweetiepea is that you do not really understand much of what is being said by me or indeed anyone else on this forum. If you understood what is being expounded here, you would have realised long ago that I'm not putting myself above you or anyone else.
Sure you do. In every post. "The others here" do not realize, but you do. :lol:
I know I'm beyond

The problem with you Sweetiepea
There you go again, finding fault in your world. I now feed your idiocy back to you
Your world is only a reflection of yourself.

There is only consciousness you and I are both points of this consciousness. There may be differences but no separation. It is only the idea that you have of yourself that differs. You see yourself as a body/mind hence the reason why you identify with its content.
And you said you did this and that to me, and will do this or that.
I'm simply saying how can this be you?
See above.
This body/mind and its content; if you can see it, experience it and feel it; examine it, conceptualise it and rationalise it. it cannot be you.
See above.

This one is good
unless I come down to the level of delinquency which always seems to be the case with you.

that I'm not putting myself above you or anyone else
:)


You're delusional in that you think everyone else here is not aware of the cheaply gotten concepts that you mangle in every of your posts. Why not go back to telling us about the 5 elements from your feng shui class, Toots?


.


Carry on digging, at this rate there will be no need for me to backfill, it will happen by itself - as it does.

User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby SweetPea » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:18 pm

clarifyit4me wrote:First and foremost, there is no free will, hence the illusion of doer-ship.
The problem with you Sweetiepea is that you do
Says Mr Mayers who had to hop next door
If you trace yourself back earnestly
You are to rapped up

You people can spend all your life looking for the truth, roaming internet site, researching papers and bowing down to iconic figures - but it is all in vain. First you must begin with yourself , this is the inexorable law. You cannot change the image without changing the face. Your world is only a reflection of yourself but you lot continue to find fault with it.

:lol: What a cheapskate. That's all he has to offer. Hypocritical nonsense
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

User avatar
Scott Mayers
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 pm
Custom Title: Deep

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby Scott Mayers » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:33 pm

clarifyit4me wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:clarify4me,

If you are reading this and all the world is only true as you read this, then you shouldn't find a need to continue reading, let alone start, as you would already know before hand what the content of what I'm saying is correct since I must only exist in your mind.

If you follow this and are discovering what I'm writing as news to you, you have evidence that there is at least, an 'other' truth beyond yourself. Thus, it is not true to assert the Solipsist position. Mind you, as I've pointed out in the other thread (Nature of Contradiction), even though this is contradictory, I'm sure that if you recognize it, you will be motivated to find resolution to it by discovering a place where you can both appear to be the only subject in reality as well as other subjects external to yourself. ;)


First and foremost, there is no free will, hence the illusion of doer-ship. What is being done happens by itself. And it is not necessary and neither is it a requirement to know the details of what is in the mind. To know the mind as a disturbance is enough. In consciousness the detail can only be relative to the absolute, meaning the world is true as far as the appearance goes; but it cannot be. You have to be there before the world can appears. If you trace yourself back earnestly, you will know that you were before the world.

There is no truth beyond the self, you only know what is in your conscious, whatever you postulate beyond this is inference.

And the only thing I recognise here is that you do not know what constitute a contradiction conclusively.
Why would I put my trust in someone who is not even sure what constitutes a contradiction?
Playing around with words like a child plays around with building blocks will not help. You are to rapped up in concepts and theories
That have no relevance to now. All these are in the mind, you body is in the mind, YOU ARE NOT. When you go to sleep, the world disappears, when you wake it reappears. Although you are not conscious of a world in your sleep, you are alive.

I can only see that you are not following the argument as I presented it.

(1) Only if everything that you experience is already pre-known to your awareness now can you even suggest that you have absolute justification to assert that you are all that exists. That lack of being able to already know what I am about to say IS the very evidence that you are not the essence of reality alone. This fact is still based on your own reality to judge things alone from your perspective as being all that you can be absolutely certain of.

(2) In addition to this, the reality regarding determinism vs. indeterminism from my perspective allows for both to be true. This follows from the multi-universe theories that I happen to agree to as should be apparent in what I have written here or elsewhere.

(3) In regards to sleep, consciousness of your 'controlling' type with respect to the external world can be lost but is replaced by a different one in respect to how the neurons behave in different ways. This down-time is used for the individual cells to alter their protein cycle to do things like build extended structure to harden the relatively light memory markers created during your body's wake state.
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby SweetPea » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:37 pm

you go to sleep, the world disappears, when you wake it reappears.

What a cheapskate. Steals about half a dozen snippets and makes a troll persona.
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

clarifyit4me
Regular Poster
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm
Custom Title: Apply

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby clarifyit4me » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:57 pm

Scott Mayers wrote
I can only see that you are not following the argument as I presented it.


...because you have not presented an argument as yet to follow. You speculate and postulate and present theories that you have collected. Take away all of this and what are you left with?

Scott Mayers wrote:
(1) Only if everything that you experience is already pre-known to your awareness now can you even suggest that you have absolute justification to assert that you are all that exists...


From a personal perspective in my mind you are only and image, in your mind I am only a image. From an impersonal perspective there is only consciousness. When I say I exist only as a point in consciousness, it also applies to you and everyone else, only your point exist in my consciousness; my point exist in your consciousness. From my perspective your existence needs to be verified by my existence first and vice versa. All the ideas you have about yourself are based on your memory. All this learnt stuff you are churning up as its roots in the imagination. It is all according to name shape and forms; verbal definitions, formulation and mental constructs which of course can only be of the mind and for the mind. Can you locate your whereabouts without reference to your environment? Who are you ? More to the point where are you?

Scott Mayers wrote:
That lack of being able to already know what I am about to say IS the very evidence that you are not the essence of reality alone. This fact is still based on your own reality to judge things alone from your perspective as being all that you can be absolutely certain of.


You have misunderstood yourself, there is no personal reality, only the imaginary world you have conjured up for yourself. The lack of not being able to already know what you were about to say prove nothing, other than the fact that we can only know what is in our own consciousness. Apart from this and the fact that you exist, what else can you know?

Scott Mayers wrote:
(2) In addition to this, the reality regarding determinism vs. indeterminism from my perspective allows for both to be true.


Of course what is right, is wrong and what is wrong, is right but formulas however fanciful cannot and do not describe the reality.

Scott Mayers wrote:
This follows from the multi-universe theories that I happen to agree to as should be apparent in what I have written here or elsewhere.


You can agree with what ever you like it is only based on your likes and dislikes, I'm only concerned with the fact. Do you know the facts?

Scott Mayers wrote:
(3) In regards to sleep, consciousness of your 'controlling' type with respect to the external world can be lost but is replaced by a different one in respect to how the neurons behave in different ways.


Would you know what a neuron looks without the knowledge?
When you loose consciousness as in sleep the mind is in abeyance, there is no dreaming and no movement. It is also in abeyance when you are deep in thought - you can sit on your arsehole all day and not know its there until you feel discomfort or want a crap.

Now who said anything about control of consciousness ? Nobody is in control of consciousness, it is a spontaneous happening. It is you whose trying to confine it to some theory.
All this happens in the mind only. All this learnt stuff is the given. Second hand knowledge and it is based on the empirical. It does not apply beyond the mind.

Scott Mayer wrote:
This down-time is used for the individual cells to alter their protein cycle to do things like build extended structure to harden the relatively light memory markers created during your body's wake state.


Like I said, I'm not interested in what goes on in your mind or rather the abstract idea of a brain that is a mental formation of the mind; even the the others minds for that matter, that is your problem. For the mind is nothing but dreaming, the mind can do nothing but dream. Stick to the facts. You are saying nothing, and your theories like every body else's are nothing but inherited or acquired patterns that you are projecting; essential you are dragging up the past and applying it over the present, you are only regurgitating borrowed knowledge. Aside the content of your mind what do you know here and now. What is actual Mr Mayers?

clarifyit4me
Regular Poster
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm
Custom Title: Apply

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby clarifyit4me » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:12 am

SweetPea wrote:
you go to sleep, the world disappears, when you wake it reappears.

What a cheapskate. Steals about half a dozen snippets and makes a troll persona.


It is not a steal sweetie, it is simple logic and an obvious fact. If you paid a little more attention to yourself and not what the others are saying you to would discover such snippets. Carry on digging.

User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby SweetPea » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:49 am

clarifyit4me wrote:
SweetPea wrote:
you go to sleep, the world disappears, when you wake it reappears.

What a cheapskate. Steals about half a dozen snippets and makes a troll persona.


It is not a steal sweetie, it is simple logic and an obvious fact. If you paid a little more attention to yourself and not what the others are saying you to would discover such snippets. Carry on digging.


Sure you stole snippets from here and there. The 5 elements. There's another example.
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

clarifyit4me
Regular Poster
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm
Custom Title: Apply

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby clarifyit4me » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:29 am

SweetPea wrote:
clarifyit4me wrote:
SweetPea wrote:
you go to sleep, the world disappears, when you wake it reappears.

What a cheapskate. Steals about half a dozen snippets and makes a troll persona.


It is not a steal sweetie, it is simple logic and an obvious fact. If you paid a little more attention to yourself and not what the others are saying you to would discover such snippets. Carry on digging.


Sure you stole snippets from here and there. The 5 elements. There's another example.


You mean another example of an obvious fact, words do not explain facts they only convey them. Haha!! Let face it sweetiepee, your not a very intelligent person, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel here or should I say the hole you have been digging for last few posts. it's very easy to rapped you up in your own nonsense and bury you because you supply the means. Like I said before, there is no need for the other to bury you, you do the job so well yourself. But it's not so bad this side, actually it's quite entertaining when you jam your cogs into gear, sure you make a lot of noise when you do - but not a lot is being said. You make good job of parroting, cutting and pasting and contradicting yourself - thoroughly. Carry on digging?

User avatar
Scott Mayers
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 pm
Custom Title: Deep

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby Scott Mayers » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:22 pm

clarifyit4me,
I am lost on what you are interpreting here. It may be due to a difference in the way we communicate.
clarifyit4me wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:
(3) In regards to sleep, consciousness of your 'controlling' type with respect to the external world can be lost but is replaced by a different one in respect to how the neurons behave in different ways.


...

Now who said anything about control of consciousness ? Nobody is in control of consciousness, it is a spontaneous happening. It is you whose trying to confine it to some theory.
All this happens in the mind only. All this learnt stuff is the given. Second hand knowledge and it is based on the empirical. It does not apply beyond the mind.

As an example above here in your response, it appears that you misinterpreted what I meant by 'control'. I was only referring to the fact that in our everyday awaking consciousness, this conscious mechanism, whether you want to call it real or not, is the body's means to interact with the unpredictable environment and acts to control what or how the body does to get its needs met for the cells of the body as a whole. In a sense, the consciousness that you are using now to read this is only one form of consciousness that represents the activity of the brain to serve the needs of all the cells of the body.
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

User avatar
Scott Mayers
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 pm
Custom Title: Deep

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby Scott Mayers » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:37 pm

clarifyit4me,

I looked up the Wikipedia entry on "Solipsism" and my question to you is whether you take the metaphysical position or the general weaker one from the following descriptions:
Solipsism (Listeni/ˈsɒlɨpsɪzəm/; from Latin solus, meaning "alone", and ipse, meaning "self")[1] is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure. The external world and other minds cannot be known, and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist.[/color]

[From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism]
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby SweetPea » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:36 pm

clarifyit4me wrote:
SweetPea wrote:
clarifyit4me wrote:
SweetPea wrote:
you go to sleep, the world disappears, when you wake it reappears.

What a cheapskate. Steals about half a dozen snippets and makes a troll persona.


It is not a steal sweetie, it is simple logic and an obvious fact. If you paid a little more attention to yourself and not what the others are saying you to would discover such snippets. Carry on digging.


Sure you stole snippets from here and there. The 5 elements. There's another example.


You mean another example of an obvious fact, words do not explain facts they only convey them. Haha!! Let face it sweetiepee, your not a very intelligent person, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel here or should I say the hole you have been digging for last few posts. it's very easy to rapped you up in your own nonsense and bury you because you supply the means. Like I said before, there is no need for the other to bury you, you do the job so well yourself. But it's not so bad this side, actually it's quite entertaining when you jam your cogs into gear, sure you make a lot of noise when you do - but not a lot is being said. You make good job of parroting, cutting and pasting and contradicting yourself - thoroughly. Carry on digging?
:lol: He doesn't know the difference between a fact and a theory. Home schooling was not kind to this bird.
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

clarifyit4me
Regular Poster
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm
Custom Title: Apply

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby clarifyit4me » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:09 pm

I am lost on what you are interpreting here. It may be due to a difference in the way we communicate.
Scott Mayer wrote;


you are bound to be lost if your master is the mind, mind is synonymous with confusion. hence the phase "Master Mind" you are in charge, not the mind, it is a good servant but a bad master.

All happens in silence.
As long as you try to interpret what I'm expounding you will not understand.
There is no difference in the way we communicate, it is only a matter of what we are communicating. Your communications are based on the content of your memory; you impart or convey the information in your memory in you communications - this information is fuelled by your imagination. I communicate as consciousness, as it actually happens here and now. What is expressed in the here and now is intrinsic memory, not personal. You communicate as a person, a character with personal traits thought and imagined. Memory by itself is intrinsic to the mind for obvious reasons; we need not go into them here, as I'm sure you would agree, but the content of memory is based on what we like and do not like. Intrinsic memory is inherent in the material; consciousness, your personal memory is in the mind.


People are born, from this moment the show begins but the dreaming start the moment you become aware of your existence. Some people come here and they realise this through trail and error, some people do not. Those who come here and never stop dreaming until death comes knocking on their door, are the ones who have to relive the experience again and again again until they wake up, it is simple logic.

Scott Mayers wrote:
(3) In regards to sleep, consciousness of your 'controlling' type with respect to the external world can be lost but is replaced by a different one in respect to how the neurons behave in different ways.


Clarify4me wrote:
Now who said anything about control of consciousness ? Nobody is in control of consciousness, it is a spontaneous happening. It is you whose trying to confine it to some theory.
All this happens in the mind only. All this learnt stuff is the given. Second hand knowledge and it is based on the empirical. It does not apply beyond the mind.


Scott Mayers wrote:
As an example above here in your response, it appears that you misinterpreted what I meant by 'control'. I was only referring to the fact that in our everyday awaking consciousness, this conscious mechanism, whether you want to call it real or not, is the body's means to interact with the unpredictable environment and acts to control what or how the body does to get its needs met for the cells of the body as a whole. In a sense, the consciousness that you are using now to read this is only one form of consciousness that represents the activity of the brain to serve the needs of all the cells of the body.


I understood perfectly well what you were saying, but do you understanding me? You are trying to classify consciousness.
The same consciousness that I use to read this post is the same consciousness the governs the brain is the same consciousness that govern the neuron. There is only one consciousness wether it be a single celled amoeba, ant or elephant; it is all the same consciousness. You are mistaking the various levels of consciousness for types of consciousness. There are no types, just consciousness.

clarifyit4me
Regular Poster
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm
Custom Title: Apply

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby clarifyit4me » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:14 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:clarifyit4me,

I looked up the Wikipedia entry on "Solipsism" and my question to you is whether you take the metaphysical position or the general weaker one from the following descriptions:
Solipsism (Listeni/ˈsɒlɨpsɪzəm/; from Latin solus, meaning "alone", and ipse, meaning "self")[1] is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure. The external world and other minds cannot be known, and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist.[/color]

[From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism]


My position is clear, all is imagination. There is only you. Nobody can say you don't exists because first their existence must be confirmed by you. This account has been settled and applies to all.

User avatar
Scott Mayers
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 pm
Custom Title: Deep

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby Scott Mayers » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:19 pm

clarifyit4me wrote:I understood perfectly well what you were saying, but do you understanding me? ...


No, you're right, I not understanding you.
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby zeuzzz » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:28 am

Clarifyit4me, your name is somewhat of a paradox if your recent posts are anything to go by. If you have a very concise point to make to me here now then I will be more than happy to reply. If you start writing a book then I wont read it. Sorry to be blunt.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby SweetPea » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:56 am

Here is clarifyit4me @ work:
My position is clear, all is imagination.
we can only know what is in our own consciousness
He imagines.

He thinks this is good stuff. Home schooling was not kind to clarify.

I'm sure you would agree
He's quite sure, because he imagines.

I'm only concerned with the fact.
:lol: That he imagines.

This account has been settled and applies to all.
His memory is bad.
SweetPea wrote:
clarifyit4me wrote:
SweetPea wrote:You do not know.
I know I do not know. Can we change the game now Sweetpea
clarifyit4me wrote:I know....
You do not know. I explained that to you already
:lol:

mind is synonymous with confusion
His must be.

I distinctively remember
You are only reacting out of memory; your memory is govern by your imagination
:lol: He can't remember his lines.
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

User avatar
Scott Mayers
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 pm
Custom Title: Deep

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby Scott Mayers » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:00 pm

It could just mean that English is a second language for clarifyit4me and he is he just has a harder time trying to communicate with it very easy.
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

clarifyit4me
Regular Poster
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm
Custom Title: Apply

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby clarifyit4me » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:20 pm

zeuzzz wrote:Clarifyit4me, your name is somewhat of a paradox if your recent posts are anything to go by. If you have a very concise point to make to me here now then I will be more than happy to reply. If you start writing a book then I wont read it. Sorry to be blunt.


In truth there is no partiality.
Zeuzzz, in case you haven't notice, life itself is a paradox. Now I cannot be any more concise than informing you, that you are not this body, you are not this mind and most certainly not its content. Now how you perceive this will be according to the state of your mind. This knowledge what I'm sharing with you is not of this world. So until you find the courage to let go of the illusion of this world, you will not understand. You want something out of it and because of this what is right, does not come. I'm not giving you anything in particular because I do not see myself as anything in particular. I am a nobody and because I am a nobody I give all. You cannot give what you do not have.

If you want to learn how to drive, you pay attention to the instructor or if you are teaching yourself, you simply pay attention to yourself. Life is the only authentic university, if we accept its lessons and corrections, we come to know the real.
For as long as we think we know something, we will inevitably be held back. You must come to terms with the fact that you know nothing other than that which is given to you; which is basically everything bar your existence. That which is given to you is unreal, that which you know to be true is your own and makes it absolutely real. Out of your own insight you know that you exist as a matter of fact. What is given to you is a matter of opinion which makes it relatively unreal

To know what you are, first you must find out what you are not. Now you can either trust me and take my advice; any spare time you get, sit with yourself in silence, even if for five minute at a time. If its consistent and you stay with it, the experience will grow and you will come to know. Watch your thoughts but do not identify with any of them. It is the identity with thought that draws you into the imagination which once ignited, spiral out control. Or you can go and investigate yourself. But the vital ingredients in both routes is alertness, honesty and earnestness. incidentally investigation is the long way. it has taken me the best part of 25yrs by this route.

You must know your true being and assert your true being. Be the master of your mind, otherwise it will fool you, trick you and lead you down the garden path.

Consciousness is a condition, to be something is a conditioning. To be nothing in particular is the eternal process.

It does not matter what you are in this world, that depends on the chemical composition. You could be a mass murder, a child rapist or a cannibal, all will lead you to yourself if you accept and are not afraid.

At the end of the day Zeuzzz it is up to you; this knowledge is simple and obtainable by all. The question is do you want it? If you are not sincere with yourself there is no point in pursuing it, you might as well take the blue pill, go live your life and forget it. If you are not sincere you will always be missing the point, which defeat the objective, since the point of it all, is YOU.

User avatar
Scott Mayers
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 pm
Custom Title: Deep

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby Scott Mayers » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:21 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:It could just mean that English is a second language for clarifyit4me and he is he just has a harder time trying to communicate with it very easy.*


*I meant "easily". I guess this proves that it could also just be a case of being poor with the grammar.
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

clarifyit4me
Regular Poster
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm
Custom Title: Apply

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby clarifyit4me » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:00 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:It could just mean that English is a second language for clarifyit4me and he is he just has a harder time trying to communicate with it very easy.


Haha!! Please Mr Mayers, sarcasm will not do. English is my first language. The problem is you have a hard time trying to understand, as you said in a previous post.

You are applying the language to something in particular - where as I apply it to nothing in particular. If the tool is at fault, you cannot blame its user. If you loose someone you love dearly , how can you put this into words? You cannot because the language is inadequate to do so. So how do you expect me to put into words something that is essentially indescribable in the first place ? Think about what you are thinking Mr Mayers. Otherwise you will end up like the pea in the pod - lost in babblery and eaten for dinner. :lol:

User avatar
Scott Mayers
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 pm
Custom Title: Deep

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby Scott Mayers » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:23 pm

clarifyit4me wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:It could just mean that English is a second language for clarifyit4me and he is he just has a harder time trying to communicate with it very easy.


Haha!! Please Mr Mayers, sarcasm will not do. English is my first language. The problem is you have a hard time trying to understand, as you said in a previous post.

You are applying the language to something in particular - where as I apply it to nothing in particular. If the tool is at fault, you cannot blame its user. If you loose someone you love dearly , how can you put this into words? You cannot because the language is inadequate to do so. So how do you expect me to put into words something that is essentially indescribable in the first place ? Think about what you are thinking Mr Mayers. Otherwise you will end up like the pea in the pod - lost in babblery and eaten for dinner. :lol:

I am not meaning any insult against you. It just appears by your responses that you are both not following the contextual logic of what I had said and that the way you communicate seems at odds with things that most might find rather mystical, even if this is not what you may actually mean. That is why I asked you to clarify your position with regards to Solipsism. Instead of doing so, you seem to think that we, as readers, already can conclude it. So I ask you again if you can try to help pinpoint to me from that source, which kind of Solipsism you intend to be in support of?
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby SweetPea » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:25 pm

clarifyit4me wrote:To know what you are, first you must find out what you are not. Now you can either trust me and take my advice; any spare time you get, sit with yourself in silence, even if for five minute at a time. If its consistent and you stay with it, the experience will grow and you will come to know. Watch your thoughts but do not identify with any of them. It is the identity with thought that draws you into the imagination which once ignited, spiral out control. Or you can go and investigate yourself. But the vital ingredients in both routes is alertness, honesty and earnestness. incidentally investigation is the long way. it has taken me the best part of 25yrs by this route.
"clarifyit4me wrote:I know I do not know. Can we change the game now Sweetpea


:lol:
No, we are not going to change the game. You're losing, and that's your worry.

clarifyit4me wrote:Haha!! Please Mr Mayers, sarcasm will not do. English is my first language. The problem is you have a hard time trying to understand, as you said in a previous post.

You are applying the language to something in particular - where as I apply it to nothing in particular.


You are incapable of not misapplying it.
You don't know how to spell "lose". First you must know what it isn't. It isn't "loose". :lol:

If you loose someone


You use "to" in the place of "too".
You don't know how to spell "wrapped"
You are to rapped up in concepts and theories
I could go on for half a page, and get into your grammatical constructions, but there's no need for that, is there, clarifyit4me?
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

clarifyit4me
Regular Poster
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm
Custom Title: Apply

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby clarifyit4me » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:55 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:
clarifyit4me wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:It could just mean that English is a second language for clarifyit4me and he is he just has a harder time trying to communicate with it very easy.


Haha!! Please Mr Mayers, sarcasm will not do. English is my first language. The problem is you have a hard time trying to understand, as you said in a previous post.

You are applying the language to something in particular - where as I apply it to nothing in particular. If the tool is at fault, you cannot blame its user. If you loose someone you love dearly , how can you put this into words? You cannot because the language is inadequate to do so. So how do you expect me to put into words something that is essentially indescribable in the first place ? Think about what you are thinking Mr Mayers. Otherwise you will end up like the pea in the pod - lost in babblery and eaten for dinner. :lol:

I am not meaning any insult against you. It just appears by your responses that you are both not following the contextual logic of what I had said and that the way you communicate seems at odds with things that most might find rather mystical, even if this is not what you may actually mean. That is why I asked you to clarify your position with regards to Solipsism. Instead of doing so, you seem to think that we, as readers, already can conclude it. So I ask you again if you can try to help pinpoint to me from that source, which kind of Solipsism you intend to be in support of?


And no offence was taken. But
how do you expect me to take it when I have clearly stated my position throughout my posts. There is only you, and there is nothing you can know outside of you. This is fact. I simply deal with the facts, I'm not much interested in philosophy, let the philosophers deal with their philosophies; unless they convey a fact. If it turns out to be a fact, then indeed it is not a philosophy or does it have anything to do with metaphysics. The self is a fact and not a philosophical or metaphysical assumption. What is real cannot be defined but the self can be describe as being; being can only be experienced, so there is no question of philosophising. There is only the self in being; not my self or your self, just the self.

There is nothing mystical about the self, in fact there is more mystery in objects and things since they appear and disappear without trace. Where does the body go when it dies? We all know the theory of decomposition but where does it lead, can you trace it? The entire universe is reflected in a single event but the cause of this event is untraceable.

This self applies to every sentient being that is aware of the condition of consciousness.

You accuse me of not following contextual logic without grasping the simple logic yourself. Your valid reasoning is base on a puff of smoke which can evaporate at any moment with the advance of a tumour or financial crises.

I am in support of being, the true self; not the false self that you base the idea of a person on - "me and mine". The false is only a reflection in your mind hence the reason why it is restless and in movement; the mind itself is restless. It is not your true being.

The reflection of the moon in the water is stir by the wind making it appear restless. Just as the wind of desire stirs the mind making the self appear restless. But this movement or restlessness is only in the mind. Your true being is beyond the minds ken. It can only be experienced in the now where the mind is not. Where is the mind when you are in sleep? There is only now. But you miss this because you move along with the mind between past in memory and the future in anticipation. Surely you can see for yourself that there is nothing you can grab a hold of and say I've found something that is permanent. Nothing is permanent in consciousness. All thing cycle through dissolution and resolution.

User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby SweetPea » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:11 pm

clarifyit4me wrote:There is only you, and there is nothing you can know outside of you. This is fact. I simply deal with the facts...
Facts, like the 5 elements "science" he spoke of.

...I'm not much interested in philosophy, let the philosophers deal with their philosophies; unless they convey a fact. If it turns out to be a fact, then indeed it is not a philosophy or does it have anything to do with metaphysics. The self is a fact and not a philosophical or metaphysical assumption.

He doesn't know the difference between a fact and a concept.
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby zeuzzz » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:30 pm

The latest and greatest in terms of what this thread is really about. A very very recent TEDx talk about MDMA and it's effects in a clinical setting. The like:view ratio for this is, nearly by double, the highest ever on their site (may have extrapolated back in time a bit too much there). There is clearly a huge public appetite for this material.

Science not fear - drug policy and medical research: Virginia Wright at TEDxSantaCruz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umJCqMgvdhc
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby zeuzzz » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:06 pm

I would greatly appreciate that anyone who has participated in this thread, for whatever reason, watch the above video, and share your views on what she says.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:16 am

kennyc wrote:One can be addicted to just about anything.....certainly to mind altering drugs.


Image
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

User avatar
kennyc
Has No Life
Posts: 12192
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:21 am
Custom Title: The Dank Side of the Moon
Location: Denver, CO

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby kennyc » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:17 am

"The mind is at the heart of spontaneous opportunities" _
Kenny A. Chaffin
Art Gallery - Photo Gallery - Writing&Poetry - The Bleeding Edge
"Strive on with Awareness" - Siddhartha Gautama

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:28 pm

Non sequitur?
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26356
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:14 am

Scott Mayers wrote:It could just mean that English is a second language for clarifyit4me and he is he just has a harder time trying to communicate with it very easy.
None of what Clarifyit4me says "adds up". The poor use of grammar, the bad spelling and the inability to form cohesive paragraphs......

Clarifyit4me wrote:As a secondary teacher in the Uk

Clarifyit4me wrote:My English teacher who had amazing energy & encouraged us all to explore what is was that we wanted to be ( regardless of class, race or gender) and a science teacher who gave up her time after school or at lunch to help us understand scientific concepts better & brought her own videos & resources to help us ( no YouTube then ) . Many years later after becoming a teacher myself


The other thing is the repeating of mantras, that never evolve and actually conflict with other mantras in other paragraphs, suggesting someone is simply copying from a book of hippy "buzz" expressions. .
Clarifyit4 the hippy.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26356
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Skeptics need to embrace conscious experience more

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:16 am

zeuzzz wrote:I would greatly appreciate that anyone who has participated in this thread, for whatever reason, watch the above video, and share your views on what she says.


Well Zuezzz, I did watch the last video you asked us to watch and I pointed out some errors. You didn't make any comment and simply posted another video. That's not really fair is it?


Return to “Brain, Mind, & Consciousness”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests