Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

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Williamhkennedy
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Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Williamhkennedy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:23 pm

Dear Skeptics Forum,
Please consider my below challenge to James Randi for the Million Bucks!

WHK


Sphinx Radio host William H. Kennedy explains why he believes that the Randi 1 million dollar prize should go to Shifu Shi Yan Ming & Sensai Isao Machii of Stan Lee's Superhumans (History Channel).

To Listen go to http://www.sphinxradio.com/Specialreport.mp3

History Channel Mystical Chi Clips

Kung Fu Master Shifu Shi Yan Ming:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz6PwUBXe6g

Master Ming Verified by Professor Cynthia Bir (Wayne State Uni. ):

http://www.eng.wayne.edu/page.php?id=5630
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Karate Master Sensai Isao Machii

http://www.history.com/shows/stan-lees- ... er-samurai

Sensai Isao Machii verified by Professor Ramani Durvasula (Cal State LA):

http://www.calstatela.edu/academic/psyc ... vasula.htm

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:41 pm

Fill out an app and let us know how it goes.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

Then, of course, there is...

http://www.bullshido.net/

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by xouper » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:43 pm

Williamhkennedy wrote:Dear Skeptics Forum,
Please consider my below challenge to James Randi for the Million Bucks!

Please pardon my failure to figure this out, but would you explain what's paranormal about these claims? Thanks.

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Williamhkennedy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:31 pm

Hi Xouper,
Both martial artists are claiming to use Chi -- a mystical power. They are manifesting superhuman powers which they claim comes from a metaphysical force. If you listen to my report Prof Bir claims that Master Ming is "not normal" i.e., paranomal. The same goes for the Sensai.

Please consider that I want more study of this phenomenon -- if nothing else we must reassess the parameters of human physical ability. I am open to counter explanations.

WHK

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Williamhkennedy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:27 pm

PS,
Prof Bir states in the film that "there is something to Chi" thus affirming a metaphysical reality.

Here are her qualifications: http://www.eng.wayne.edu/page.php?id=5630

For a professor of biomedical engineering to say this is astounding and warrants further examination by science. I am open to the possibility that she is mistaken. There are cases of hysterical strength and this might be along those lines. Again more hard science is needed to access this sort of thing.

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:30 pm

Her qualifications in biomedical engineering do not necessarily qualify her to state that "there is something to chi," nor does that statement confer reality upon a mystical concept.
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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Williamhkennedy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:50 pm

As I said this warrants more scientific examination and I want more prof. However, I can think of no one more qualified that Dr Bir. Her comment means quite a bit -- she is a hard scientist extremely qualified to measure physical effects and causes. We need more scientists to study this phenomenon, Can any one here replicate what these men do? Any conjurers care to try?

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by xouper » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:07 pm

Williamhkennedy wrote:Hi Xouper,
Both martial artists are claiming to use Chi -- a mystical power. They are manifesting superhuman powers

What superhuman powers are they manifesting?

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Williamhkennedy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:59 pm

Hi,
Please watch both videos:

Master Shi Yan Ming's punching power has been measured at 772 lbf (3,430 N) of force, while his one-inch punch was measured to have 1.78 vC, more injurious than a 30 mph (48 km/h) car crash! No other human force has ever come close to this. He claims he does this with Chi Power. I challenge anyone to replicate this feat by purely physical means -- this is a miracle!

Master Isao Machii sliced a 200 mile an hour pellet fired from 70 feat away with a Samurai sword. The psychologist professor who specializes in sensory input cannot explain how he did it. This is another miracle!

Either its chi force or humans are physically capable of much more than we thoght. Again I am open to more scientific investigation -- this is new territory by anyone's standard.

I would love to hear Dr Shermer's take on this because he has degrees in biology and psychology. I have invited him back on my radio show. I have had him and Randi on and would love to have them on again at sphinxradio.com

I am open to all theories and you got to admit this is really new and weird!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz6PwUBXe6g

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:22 pm

Williamhkennedy wrote:Hi,
Please watch both videos:

Master Shi Yan Ming's punching power has been measured at 772 lbf (3,430 N) of force, while his one-inch punch was measured to have 1.78 vC, more injurious than a 30 mph (48 km/h) car crash! No other human force has ever come close to this. He claims he does this with Chi Power. I challenge anyone to replicate this feat by purely physical means -- this is a miracle!

Umm...not necessarily. The tests in the videos did not appear to me to be very well controlled.
Master Isao Machii sliced a 200 mile an hour pellet fired from 70 feat away with a Samurai sword. The psychologist professor who specializes in sensory input cannot explain how he did it. This is another miracle!

Again, not necessarily.
Either its chi force or humans are physically capable of much more than we thoght. Again I am open to more scientific investigation -- this is new territory by anyone's standard.

I suggest that there may be other possibilities.
I would love to hear Dr Shermer's take on this because he has degrees in biology and psychology. I have invited him back on my radio show. I have had him and Randi on and would love to have them on again at sphinxradio.com

I am open to all theories and you got to admit this is really new and weird!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz6PwUBXe6g

Conjurors have been known to catch bullets in their teeth.

Theories and explanations aren't useful until accurate baseline measurements can be taken and testing can be conducted under strictly controlled conditions. Until then, it is unwarranted to decide one way or the other about "chi."
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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by xouper » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:30 pm

Williamhkennedy wrote:Hi,
Please watch both videos:

Master Shi Yan Ming's punching power has been measured at 772 lbf (3,430 N) of force, while his one-inch punch was measured to have 1.78 vC, more injurious than a 30 mph (48 km/h) car crash! No other human force has ever come close to this. He claims he does this with Chi Power. I challenge anyone to replicate this feat by purely physical means -- this is a miracle!

If he can punch harder than anyone else, so what, how is that paranormal? It doesn't matter that he says it's paranormal, where's the proof that his punch is done with Chi?

Master Isao Machii sliced a 200 mile an hour pellet fired from 70 feat away with a Samurai sword. The psychologist professor who specializes in sensory input cannot explain how he did it. This is another miracle!

How is that in any way paranormal?

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Williamhkennedy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:35 pm

Because Machii claims that he is using the mystical Ki or Chi. Can you replicate this? I would like to see it!!!

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by xouper » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:39 pm

Williamhkennedy wrote:Because Machii claims that he is using the mystical Ki or Chi.

Where's the evidence his claim is true? Certainly not in that video.

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Williamhkennedy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:41 pm

Also I am open to a purely materialistic explanation. Master Ming is 5 ft 3 and 112 pounds. He is able to generate a punch greater than any boxer -- he is beyond any former mechanical scale for a living thing! I agree that more scientific studies are needed and both these men want more examination under any and all scientific conditions. Why don't you get Dr Shermer to conduct some experiments -- that's what I want!!!

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by xouper » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:51 pm

Williamhkennedy wrote:Also I am open to a purely materialistic explanation. Master Ming is 5 ft 3 and 112 pounds. He is able to generate a punch greater than any boxer -- he is beyond any former mechanical scale for a living thing!

There is no evidence in that video for those claims. What else do you have?

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Williamhkennedy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:19 pm

Prof Bir stated this and you are free to contact her. She is actually offering some peer reviewed studies on this case coming out soon. I will post them. I agree that much more needs to be done -- again why don't you ask Dr Shermer to study Ming??? I am looking for skeptical examination and study -- not mere rejection without examination which is what you are doing.

I want Randi and Shermer to turn the thumb screws on these cases. I want replication by the Masters and any conjurer who can copy this. It certainly needs more science -- not just reflexive rejection which is not science. I contacted Randi and Shemer and await their views on this. I am not hiding from skeptics -- I want to hear from them. I have had them on my show before and I welcome them back!!!

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by xouper » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:51 pm

Williamhkennedy wrote:Prof Bir stated this ...

Sorry, but that's not what she said in the video. She never once said anything even remotely like what you claimed.

Recap: you claimed:
1) "He is able to generate a punch greater than any boxer -- "

Bir did not say that. She said his punch to the face is similar to what elite boxers can achieve. Nothing paranormal there.

And you claimed:
2) "he is beyond any former mechanical scale for a living thing!"

Bir never said anything like that in the video. Not even close. Nothing in that video supports that particular claim.

So I'll ask again, what evidence do you have for your two claims?


She is actually offering some peer reviewed studies on this case coming out soon. I will post them. I agree that much more needs to be done -- again why don't you ask Dr Shermer to study Ming??? I am looking for skeptical examination and study -- not mere rejection without examination which is what you are doing.

I am skeptical because because you have offered nothing to examine except a video. If that's all you've got then you've got nothing. And if you've got nothing, then you are in no position to criticize me for not accepting your claims. And why should I ask anyone to study Ming? I'm not yet convinced there's anything paranormal there to study. So I'll ask again, what do you have besides those videos that there is anything paranormal going on with either Ming or Machii?

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Williamhkennedy » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:35 am

Good -- I like what your saying. What I want to see is much more science research on this headed by skeptics. Dr Bir clearly said that the first punch was like an elite boxer's. The next punch was even stronger. The Final punch was in the speeding automotive range and, consequently, one can reasonably infer that it is stronger than any human scale. She also said in her final statement "the chi must mean something" as her final explanation for Ming's punch.

Again, I do not want to convince you of anything. The statement from an expert like Dr Bir must be taken seriously and warrants further examination. She is a tenured university professor and we cannot let the argument from authority convince us -- we need more skeptical study and I want Dr Shermer to do it. Is there fault with this???

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Squishua » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:50 am

Who cares about comments made by a university professor? Speaking just for myself, there would need to be a lot more "evidence" (of the non-verbal kind) to warrant a serious inquiry. Are you trying to drum up publicity?

[And as I recall, Randi has a simple test for "chi masters" who claim superhuman strength. . . It involves a few good whacks with a Louisville Slugger)
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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Pyrrho » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:51 am

Well, I hate to be the one to say this, but as far as I know, Michael Shermer doesn't read this forum, nor is he involved in the JREF Paranormal Challenge. Perhaps the kindly readers at the renowned JREF Forum may have more expertise in these matters. Ours is a low traffic forum with few true experts.
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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by xouper » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:54 am

Williamhkennedy wrote:Dr Bir clearly said that the first punch was like an elite boxer's. The next punch was even stronger.

She said the chest punch had more deflection in the dummy than the face punch, but where is the evidence that Ming's chest punch is any harder than elite boxers' chest punches?

The Final punch was in the speeding automotive range and, consequently, one can reasonably infer that it is stronger than any human scale.

Why is that a "reasonable" inference?

She also said in her final statement "the chi must mean something" as her final explanation for Ming's punch. The statement from an expert like Dr Bir must be taken seriously and warrants further examination.

Why must it be taken seriously? How do you know she meant it seriously? It could easily have been meant as a casual statement, not a scientific claim. Is she an expert in Chi? Where is the evidence that Chi even exists?

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Pyrrho » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:58 am

This article claims that at 46 feet per second, a hand can deliver an impulse of 2,800 N. Of course, the karate master would have had to trained and practiced for years to reach that level of capability.

http://discovermagazine.com/2000/may/featphysics

I'm not sure that 3,430 N is necessarily beyond human capability. Boxer Frank Bruno's punch was in excess of 6,000 N.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 9-0016.pdf

Within 0-1 s of the start the punch had travelled 0-49 m and attained a velocity on impact of 8-9 m/s. The peak force on impact of 4096N (0.4 ton), attained within 14 ms of contact, represents a blow to the human head of up to 6320N (0-63 ton). The transmitted impulse generated an acceleration of 520 m/s2 (53 g) in the target head. For comparison an equivalent blow would be delivered by a padded wooden mallet with a mass of 6 kg (13 lbs) if swung at 20 mph.
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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Williamhkennedy » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:19 am

Hi All,
1) As far as generating publicity goes I do not need this forum or skeptics to do this. see: http://www.williamhkennedy.com/radio.html I have plenty already and even have a documentary series coming out on Serial Killers which was filmed last summer and will appear on Channel D Canada and Court TV Canada as well as Tru TV USA in 2011. The network already ordered a whole new series on Satanic Killers.

I have also had major thinkers on my radio show including Michael Shermer and James Randi: http://www.sphinxradio.com/

2) Dr Bir did not make a casual statement -- she offered a scientific opinion backed by computer statistical proof.

3) I think the fellow said that there are no experts here is right. I thought Dr S participated here but was wrong -- I will try and get a statement from him from other channels. No one else here seems worth my time because not one person has called for more skeptical investigation by people like Shermer and Randi which is all I want!

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by xouper » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:37 am

Williamhkennedy wrote:[2) Dr Bir did not make a casual statement -- she offered a scientific opinion backed by computer statistical proof.

Sorry, but her comment about Chi was not backed by anything at all in that video. There is no evidence whatsoever in that video that she was offering a "scientific opinion".

Secondly, the source cited by Pyrrho says that boxer Bruno's punch is about 1400 pounds of force (6320 Newtons), well more than the 774 pounds recorded by Ming. So again, you have not provided any evidence that Ming can punch harder than any human.

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Pyrrho » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:42 am

Williamhkennedy wrote:Hi All,
1) As far as generating publicity goes I do not need this forum or skeptics to do this. see: http://www.williamhkennedy.com/radio.html I have plenty already and even have a documentary series coming out on Serial Killers which was filmed last summer and will appear on Channel D Canada and Court TV Canada as well as Tru TV USA in 2011. The network already ordered a whole new series on Satanic Killers.

Nice, but irrelevant. Plus, I'm not impressed by celebrity.
I have also had major thinkers on my radio show including Michael Shermer and James Randi: http://www.sphinxradio.com/

I'm a major thinker, too. I'm just not famous, nor do I care to be.
2) Dr Bir did not make a casual statement -- she offered a scientific opinion backed by computer statistical proof.

Proof? No. Evidence, possibly. Corroborated? Not that I can see, and Stan Lee's TV show conditions are not acceptable, scientifically. Maybe Mythbusters would be interested.
3) I think the fellow said that there are no experts here is right. I thought Dr S participated here but was wrong -- I will try and get a statement from him from other channels. No one else here seems worth my time because not one person has called for more skeptical investigation by people like Shermer and Randi which is all I want!

Well...neither of them read this forum. Calling for more skeptical investigation from them here won't amount to an erg. I'm actually more interested in the guy who wraps electrical cords around himself and apparently conducts enough electricity through his body to run household appliances. I'm curious as to how he manages that.
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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Pyrrho » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:09 am

For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Squishua » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:12 am

Pyrrho wrote:Ours is a low traffic forum with few true experts.

X > 0 ?
Dubious.
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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Blacksamwell » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:15 am

Did anyone else notice the usual martial art parlor tricks in the vid? The whole breaking wooden poles across the back thing is a total gimmick.

And what exactly was the good Dr. claiming with the "deflection" measurements? I saw the test dummy moving from an extended push, not from the initial blow.

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Dimebag » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:58 am

Punching is about leverage, about attaining the most amount of leverage attainable. Bruce lee studied the bio mechanics of the human body applied to movement, not scientifically mind you, just for the attainment of the maximum amount of applied force, and was also the pioneer of the one inch punch. He never claimed to use chi, and in fact he completely rejected the idea.

Chi was a creation of the Chinese to explain the body and how it functions as well as how it can be manipulated. It is part of the 'eastern medicine' view, which is being slowly challenged in china as they learn more of the western world.

As far as I know there is no actual way to measure chi, and there is no sensible and complete theory on what it is, or how it works. As far as science is concerned it doesn't exist. That doesn't mean that the so called effects of the application of chi are bogus, just that they can be explained with science. Take meditation for example, this can be explained with science, through relaxation techniques, breathing exercises, concentration.

Is there any real need for chi? I survive just fine without it in my daily life. Blood is my chi, it flows through my veins, provides me with life and energy, and allows me to do extraordinary things.

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Charles-- » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:46 am

  What is so paranormal about Life Energy?  

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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Austin Harper » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:29 pm

Why do people do this? One single post by this guy and it's on a topic from three years ago. And the post was void of content.
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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by Daedalus » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:03 am

Austin Harper wrote:Why do people do this? One single post by this guy and it's on a topic from three years ago. And the post was void of content.


Trolling, idiocy, or just plain thread necro for its own sake.
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Re: Randi Prize and Stan Lees Superhumans

Post by fromthehills » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:57 am

Eh, it reminded me of the bullshido site.