True Love

God, the FSM, and everything else.
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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:27 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Johan wrote:Well what good is there in science?


all good in the world comes from our scientific knowledge that gives us the luxury not to act like animals.


And where does all bad in the world comes from?

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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:42 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Johan wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Reality is a rumor perpetrated by those with weak imaginations.


Well reality has the possibility to give more happiness and fulfillment than imagination.

Not much of a reader, are you.


Agree. Very boring to me. I like discussions, interactions better. And then of course there is my greatest love and that is my Life I am living.

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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:54 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Johan wrote: Well what good is there in science?
You are posting on a computer that came from science and the scientific method .


That is true.

Matthew Ellard wrote:If it wasn't for science you would still be covered in rags, shouting at bronze age people in your local marketplace. :D


That is also true.

But it is about happiness and fulfillment.

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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:06 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:Please also note that this is a science forum where you are required to offer supporting scientific evidence for your claims. As you are posting unsupported religious propaganda you are simply wasting your time and our time.
Johan wrote:No problem. Challenge accepted.


Matthew Ellard wrote:Well son.


Ok. You see me for a "son". No problem. I can accept you, dad. As this actually has a lot of implications. And can you stand for that?


Matthew Ellard wrote: First set out your scientific hypothesis for God and then your scientific evidence to support that hypothesis.


You sound very "scientific" now. While the True benefit has not yet been proven. And also a very boring process. So although it is true what you are saying and I should do it I am more into the "eating" experience. You know. Sitting around the table and enjoying conversation. While of course the meal is there. Much more enjoyable that way. So it is rather like eating an elephant. Tender cooked and roasted to perfection and eating it . . .bit by bit. What do you say?

Matthew Ellard wrote:Don't be shy. :lol:
[/quote]

Well judgment of motivations for doing things are best left to God. Humans tend to go into that area but usually fumble. Specially when there is not much evidence available. So you have more evidence now.

I am not "shy" but prefer a "nice meal" and lively debating. I am sure you would agree. Or then most will agree as that is just . . .human nature. They want to enjoy life. They just struggle to find the perfect way.

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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:15 am

Aztexan wrote:For guys who are down on their lucks
All you need is at least twenty bucks
Go back to the alley
Ask for Spread-eagled Sally
She'll mount you and give you a really nice back rub and ask you how your day went


Only problem is that it is not about "how your day went" but about the "twenty bucks".

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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:16 am

Gord wrote:Thank Gord I haven't posted in this thread yet.


That is not something to be thankful for. That is missing out on the roasted elephant.

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Re: True Love

Postby Phoenix76 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:42 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:The psychology of love is interesting, though. Incredible individual variation. If we look at male/female erotic love, it varies from ho hum to total obsession.


But Lance, maybe it starts out as erotic love, eg, male + female = lets get it off, but true love ends up as something quite different. This, after the flames of eroticism have died away. I think that for the majority, your erotic period runs out at sometime and so it needs a much deeper relationship to have developed.

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Re: True Love

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:47 am

Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:For guys who are down on their lucks
All you need is at least twenty bucks
Go back to the alley
Ask for Spread-eagled Sally
She'll mount you and give you a really nice back rub and ask you how your day went


Only problem is that it is not about "how your day went" but about the "twenty bucks".

Its about how two different people value $20, getting laid, conversation, having contact with another human being.....aka: commerce.
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Re: True Love

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:56 am

there are many types of love.....they exist independently and as variations/developments of one another as well. Pragma is favored by me as it is close to my nom de flame. While the concept exists, no good single greek/english word for "soul mate" which need not come after Eros.

words.

They are good go know.
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Re: True Love

Postby Phoenix76 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:06 am

Well Johan, your immediate problem is you believe in god, or at least, a god. To substantiate your argument, you must first substantiate your belief. Until you do that, none of your arguments, beliefs, gods, or whatever, can stand a chance in hell of supporting your very wild accusations.

As you have been told, this is a scientific forum,and you must be able to provide evidence, or at least, substantial causation, to support your theory. You, my friend, have not done this. Perhaps you need to go find a god believing forum to get involved in.

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Re: True Love

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:12 am

Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:For guys who are down on their lucks
All you need is at least twenty bucks
Go back to the alley
Ask for Spread-eagled Sally
She'll mount you and give you a really nice back rub and ask you how your day went


Only problem is that it is not about "how your day went" but about the "twenty bucks".

Ha, ha..........not so much god then, but prosperity gospel?
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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:22 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:For guys who are down on their lucks
All you need is at least twenty bucks
Go back to the alley
Ask for Spread-eagled Sally
She'll mount you and give you a really nice back rub and ask you how your day went


Only problem is that it is not about "how your day went" but about the "twenty bucks".

Its about how two different people value $20, getting laid, conversation, having contact with another human being.....aka: commerce.


Seems very empty. Nothing left after the 20 bucks.

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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:28 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:there are many types of love.....they exist independently and as variations/developments of one another as well. Pragma is favored by me as it is close to my nom de flame. While the concept exists, no good single greek/english word for "soul mate" which need not come after Eros.

words.

They are good go know.


Seems there is more value in this "soul mate" type than the 20 bucks type. Should leave one with more and lasting happiness. At least as long as the "soul mate" lasts. Sometimes it is longer and sometimes it is shorter. I have heard of some cases that lasted a lifetime but I do not know about the quality though. Suspects it was not always 100%. Seems humans does not have the ability to handle mistakes made very well. Specially some mistakes are treated more severely than others. So it is kind of a lucky situation if there is not to many or too "big" mistakes made.

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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:38 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:Well Johan, your immediate problem is you believe in god, or at least, a god.


Maybe it looks like a problem to you. And now you are arguing from out of your perspective.

Phoenix76 wrote:To substantiate your argument, you must first substantiate your belief.


That I have done. I believe in a God of Love.

Phoenix76 wrote: Until you do that, none of your arguments, beliefs, gods, or whatever, can stand a chance in hell of supporting your very wild accusations.


No problem. That is now to me.

Phoenix76 wrote:As you have been told, this is a scientific forum,and you must be able to provide evidence, or at least, substantial causation, to support your theory.


Yep. I provide the evidence and you validate it.

Phoenix76 wrote:You, my friend, have not done this.


That is true. I have not yet done so. But not having done so does not mean that I do not have any.

Phoenix76 wrote: Perhaps you need to go find a god believing forum to get involved in.


Perhaps you should not be so quick in sending me away. Seems like you have already made up your mind that I have none. That is not correct of you. You should go about it in another way.

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Re: True Love

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:24 pm

Johan wrote: Seems there is more value in this "soul mate" type than the 20 bucks type.


I think it more depends on what you want, what the other person wants, particular circumstances...and so forth, ie: lots of stuff. Lots of variability as you reflect on the subject, the only constant, being yourself, which hopefully grows in understanding, a type of change that really is something different.
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Re: True Love

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:42 pm

On happiness.

There is a hierarchy of need, which must be filled to become happy.
At the bottom of that hierarchy is hunger and pain. You must first satisfy the hunger and achieve a pain free state before you can achieve the opportunity to become happy. Material values and modern science are the best means of satisfying the needs at the bottom of the hierarchy. Those have been done so incredibly well that people like Johan can warble on about how important stuff at the top of the hierarchy is. He fails to give credit to the solving of the lower needs first.

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Re: True Love

Postby Aztexan » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:01 pm

Johan wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:For guys who are down on their lucks
All you need is at least twenty bucks
Go back to the alley
Ask for Spread-eagled Sally
She'll mount you and give you a really nice back rub and ask you how your day went


Only problem is that it is not about "how your day went" but about the "twenty bucks".

Its about how two different people value $20, getting laid, conversation, having contact with another human being.....aka: commerce.


Seems very empty. Nothing left after the 20 bucks.


For an extra 10 bucks, she'll punch your nipples and scream at you in German
trump is literally a piece of {!#%@}.

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Re: True Love

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:02 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote: First set out your scientific hypothesis for God and then your scientific evidence to support that hypothesis.
Johan wrote: Challenge accepted.


Johan immediately chickens out
Phoenix76 wrote:You, my friend, have not done this.
Johan wrote:That is true. I have not yet done so. But not having done so does not mean that I do not have any.
Johan wrote: Well judgment of motivations for doing things are best left to God. Humans tend to go into that area but usually fumble. Specially when there is not much evidence available. So you have more (no) evidence now.
You refuse to post evidence as you don't have any.

This brings us back to our main point.

You are a nutty religious person attempting to spam propaganda, about your god, on our science based forum. You cannot write down any scientific hypothesis for your god, nor present an iota of evidence indicating your god even exists.

This means your intent is to simply troll our forum.

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Re: True Love

Postby Gord » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:43 am

Johan wrote:
Gord wrote:Thank Gord I haven't posted in this thread yet.

That is not something to be thankful for.

Well, it was....
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: True Love

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:11 am

Phoenix76 wrote: Perhaps you need to go find a god believing forum to get involved in.
Johan wrote: Perhaps you should not be so quick in sending me away. Seems like you have already made up your mind that I have none. (evidence for god).
You don't have any evidence. If you did, you would have already posted it.

You are just another religious person who can't deal with science and facts, and prefers a stone age religion as a comfort zone. You never had any evidence for your god at all.

Try a religious forum.

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Re: True Love

Postby Aztexan » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:16 am

Ok I got the croutons ready for the forthcoming word salad, the mat for the verbal gymnastics, and rubbers for the attempted mind {!#%@}. Let's see this evidence
trump is literally a piece of {!#%@}.

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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:07 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Johan wrote: Seems there is more value in this "soul mate" type than the 20 bucks type.


I think it more depends on what you want, what the other person wants, particular circumstances...and so forth, ie: lots of stuff. Lots of variability as you reflect on the subject, the only constant, being yourself, which hopefully grows in understanding, a type of change that really is something different.


Ok. Being yourself is a constant. And growing is a variable. So in our search to happiness is growing in understanding a key part to happiness?

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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:13 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:On happiness.

There is a hierarchy of need, which must be filled to become happy.
At the bottom of that hierarchy is hunger and pain. You must first satisfy the hunger and achieve a pain free state before you can achieve the opportunity to become happy. Material values and modern science are the best means of satisfying the needs at the bottom of the hierarchy. Those have been done so incredibly well that people like Johan can warble on about how important stuff at the top of the hierarchy is. He fails to give credit to the solving of the lower needs first.


If I understand you correctly you say that science has provided for food and resolved pain. That is a very important role it played. But has science not brought us also a faster deteriorating rate of our earth from which we need to live?

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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:15 am

Aztexan wrote:
Johan wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:For guys who are down on their lucks
All you need is at least twenty bucks
Go back to the alley
Ask for Spread-eagled Sally
She'll mount you and give you a really nice back rub and ask you how your day went


Only problem is that it is not about "how your day went" but about the "twenty bucks".

Its about how two different people value $20, getting laid, conversation, having contact with another human being.....aka: commerce.


Seems very empty. Nothing left after the 20 bucks.


For an extra 10 bucks, she'll punch your nipples and scream at you in German


Now you are adding on to the "empty". Going in this direction also will end in an empty pocket.

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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:23 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote: First set out your scientific hypothesis for God and then your scientific evidence to support that hypothesis.
Johan wrote: Challenge accepted.


Johan immediately chickens out
Phoenix76 wrote:You, my friend, have not done this.
Johan wrote:That is true. I have not yet done so. But not having done so does not mean that I do not have any.
Johan wrote: Well judgment of motivations for doing things are best left to God. Humans tend to go into that area but usually fumble. Specially when there is not much evidence available. So you have more (no) evidence now.
You refuse to post evidence as you don't have any.

This brings us back to our main point.

You are a nutty religious person attempting to spam propaganda, about your god, on our science based forum. You cannot write down any scientific hypothesis for your god, nor present an iota of evidence indicating your god even exists.

This means your intent is to simply troll our forum.


Nope. I am for real. Only reality brings true happiness. Trolls can not be happy because they are not for real. They are trying to find something in their wrong behavior. God is the source of happiness.

Because He Loves us He wants to give us the best there is.


And the best there is is Himself. And the only way to do that is to get us born again. This time from Him. That is the only way to give us the Best that exists namely Him.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/t ... orn-again/

https://www.christianforums.com/threads ... n.7994545/

So we have all the time been looking for a god that can solve our problems. Stop the floods, cool the earth again etc.

That is a selfish God who is keeping His abilities to Himself.

The True God with True Love give His abilities perfectly. That is why He calls Himself Father. A Father of His Children who is growing up to be exactly the same.

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Re: True Love

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:30 am

Johan wrote:Ok. Being yourself is a constant. And growing is a variable. So in our search to happiness is growing in understanding a key part to happiness?


Happiness is not a variable.
A host of research shows that every human has a default level of happiness they will revert to if not perturbed: whether they win the lottery or become paralyzed, after a year they are as happy as they were before the event.
That is why improving happiness can't be a way to measure the success of a life or a society.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
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2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:57 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Johan wrote:Ok. Being yourself is a constant. And growing is a variable. So in our search to happiness is growing in understanding a key part to happiness?


Happiness is not a variable.
A host of research shows that every human has a default level of happiness they will revert to if not perturbed: whether they win the lottery or become paralyzed, after a year they are as happy as they were before the event.
That is why improving happiness can't be a way to measure the success of a life or a society.


So how do you then measure the success of a life or a society?

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Re: True Love

Postby TJrandom » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:12 pm

Happiness is food in the stomach; relaxing after sex; watching the kiddies play; reading a good book - not THE good book.

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Re: True Love

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:59 pm

Johan wrote:
If I understand you correctly you say that science has provided for food and resolved pain. That is a very important role it played. But has science not brought us also a faster deteriorating rate of our earth from which we need to live?


No. Humanity has created that deterioration.

The changes to the planet have been under way for a long time. Since back when humans used stone tools. For example, the Polynesians crossed the Pacific Ocean in dug out canoes carved with stone tools, and carried the Polynesian rat with them. It is estimated that about a thousand species of birds went extinct as a result. This damage had nothing to do with science, since it happened in a pre-science culture.

What science has done is given us an understanding of what is happening, and provides the tools to help mitigate the effects. Today there is a major effort towards cleaning up pollution, and reducing harm. Sure, we have quite a way to go, but we are on the path.

Blaming science for the deterioration is like blaming wood for murder, when one guy hits another over the head with a baseball bat. Science is a tool. How that tool is used is up to humanity.

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Re: True Love

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:58 pm

Gord wrote:
Johan wrote:
Gord wrote:Thank Gord I haven't posted in this thread yet.

That is not something to be thankful for.

Well, it was....


There is a conundrum here. If I were to thank Gord for my not posting in this thread (whatever thread 'this' refers to), I will have posted in the aforementioned thread. So, where should I post my thanks to Gord that I haven't posted in this thread so as to be clear, and to avoid the paradox thereby creatable.
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Re: True Love

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:00 pm

Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:
Johan wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:For guys who are down on their lucks
All you need is at least twenty bucks
Go back to the alley
Ask for Spread-eagled Sally
She'll mount you and give you a really nice back rub and ask you how your day went


Only problem is that it is not about "how your day went" but about the "twenty bucks".

Its about how two different people value $20, getting laid, conversation, having contact with another human being.....aka: commerce.


Seems very empty. Nothing left after the 20 bucks.


For an extra 10 bucks, she'll punch your nipples and scream at you in German


Now you are adding on to the "empty". Going in this direction also will end in an empty pocket.


Yes, but you will have been screamed at in German. That's way up there on Maslow's hierarchy.
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Re: True Love

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:34 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote: This brings us back to our main point. You are a nutty religious person attempting to spam propaganda, about your god, on our science based forum. You cannot write down any scientific hypothesis for your god, nor present an iota of evidence indicating your god even exists. This means your intent is to simply troll our forum.


Johan wrote:Nope. I am for real.
So you admit you are a troll, simply here to spam religious propaganda, knowing skeptics think God is a load of crap? :lol:

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Re: True Love

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:36 pm

Johan wrote: So how do you then measure the success of a life or a society?
It's ability to shed archaic belief systems like "God"

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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:06 pm

TJrandom wrote:Happiness is food in the stomach;


Yep. For the poor. But seems the rich finds more joy in getting to the full stomach. And then they resent it again. I heard a story that the rich Romans vomited when their stomach was full just to be able to fill it again.

TJrandom wrote: relaxing after sex;


For those with a happy marriage which is usually only in the beginning. But even for them there is much which is causing stress.

TJrandom wrote: watching the kiddies play;


And some still worry about how to raise them effectively and how to sort out their quarrels etc.

TJrandom wrote: reading a good book -


That seems rather like running from boring or worrisome circumstances into some other ideas that can occupy the mind.

TJrandom wrote:not THE good book.


Yep. I know. That Book is boring to read.

To me it seems like true happiness is a scarce commodity and nobody really has the answer or the formula.

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Re: True Love

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:15 pm

Johan wrote: To me it seems like true happiness is a scarce commodity and nobody really has the answer or the formula.

Is your focus on "true" or on happiness?

True: some BS notion within your own head that you cannot define/express/demonstrate/set forth. Prove me wrong: go===>

Happiness: attributed to Abraham Lincoln and it helped me: "People are about as happy as they choose to be." Lot's of wisdom there. ....................... Try it.
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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:29 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:
Johan wrote:
Gord wrote:Thank Gord I haven't posted in this thread yet.

That is not something to be thankful for.

Well, it was....


There is a conundrum here. If I were to thank Gord for my not posting in this thread (whatever thread 'this' refers to), I will have posted in the aforementioned thread. So, where should I post my thanks to Gord that I haven't posted in this thread so as to be clear, and to avoid the paradox thereby creatable.


I think it is about being a part of. To exclude oneself will cause loneliness. So let us be together even if we do not think the same. This will eventually sort itself out by being together. If we have to change our opinions to better ones it is also a benefit.

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Re: True Love

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:39 pm

Johan wrote:......whatever thread 'this' refers to.....

Ah!!!!!! What else could "this" thread refer to except "THIS" THREAD?

Johan: what circumlocution are you engaged in/contemplating? Am I missing that parallel universe you seem to be so interesting in? .......................... Whatever "in" refers to? ................... But I dither and crack myself (privately all too often) up.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

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Lance Kennedy
True Skeptic
Posts: 10238
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: True Love

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:29 pm

To Johan

Sorry to tell you, but the idea that the ancient Roman wealthy deliberately vomited to make room for more food was simply a vindictive lie.
http://theconversation.com/mythbusting- ... rium-71068

True happiness is a fleeting thing. We can experience it for short periods only. Here is my recipe.

1. Some tasty wine, but not so much as to leave a hangover.
2. Salubrious company.
3. Some interesting bull-shit to discuss.

Then while you are relaxed by the wine and enjoying the conversation, you are happy.

Matthew Ellard
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: True Love

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:13 pm

It seems pretty obvious Johan is very unhappy otherwise he wouldn't be posting about his "god" here. He'd be somewhere else having fun.

Johan
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Re: True Love

Postby Johan » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:05 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:
Johan wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Johan wrote:
Aztexan wrote:For guys who are down on their lucks
All you need is at least twenty bucks
Go back to the alley
Ask for Spread-eagled Sally
She'll mount you and give you a really nice back rub and ask you how your day went


Only problem is that it is not about "how your day went" but about the "twenty bucks".

Its about how two different people value $20, getting laid, conversation, having contact with another human being.....aka: commerce.


Seems very empty. Nothing left after the 20 bucks.


For an extra 10 bucks, she'll punch your nipples and scream at you in German


Now you are adding on to the "empty". Going in this direction also will end in an empty pocket.


Yes, but you will have been screamed at in German. That's way up there on Maslow's hierarchy.


But it is not "way up there" in God's hierarchy.


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