Self-Hating Jew

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Tom Palven
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Self-Hating Jew

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:35 pm

I really liked Carey Wedler's "Dear Liberal Friends" video and tried to find out more about her on the web.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk8DDFE8v3I

One thing that I found out is that due to things she has published about Israel she has been labelled a "self-hating Jew" by some people.
http://www.israellycool.com/2014/08/17/ ... y-elizab...

Then, I was just outside doing some mindless yard work and it occurred to me that since both my sets of grandparents were Christian and I view Christianity as ridiculous at best and an abomination at worst, that I must be a Self-Hating Christian!

I've long thought that the term self-hating Jew was pretty ignorant, but this revelation brought it home even more.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Self-Hating Jew

Postby Monster » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:41 pm

I'm reminded of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I'm sure people think of her as a self-hating Somali or self-hating Muslim.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

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Re: Self-Hating Jew

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:10 pm

Monster wrote:I'm reminded of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I'm sure people think of her as a self-hating Somali or self-hating Muslim.


Fwiw, according to Wikipedia, Ayaan Hirsi is a "leading opponent of female genital mutilation."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

And, to whom it may concern, according to ombudsmen from Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, Norway, Finland, and Greenland meeting in Norway in 2013, circumcision of male children may also constitute genital mutilation and should be left up to adult males as to whether they want the procedure.
http://www.vice.com/read/is-male-circum ... mutilation
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Self-Hating Jew

Postby Tallboy » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:21 am

Tom Palven wrote:Then, I was just outside doing some mindless yard work and it occurred to me that since both my sets of grandparents were Christian and I view Christianity as ridiculous at best and an abomination at worst, that I must be a Self-Hating Christian!

I've long thought that the term self-hating Jew was pretty ignorant, but this revelation brought it home even more.


I think that terms like 'self-hating Jew' and its analogue for other races are terms used primarily by persecuted minorities to describe those within their group that acquiesce with their tormentors (often to avoid being tormented themselves), and it is often misused. As Christians have traditionally been the majority group in most countries they live, it seems unusual hearing it. But if you were Christian living in a part of the world where you were in the minority and persecuted, then seeing those who you think are colluding with your persecutors as 'self-hating Christians' would probably have some meaning.

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Re: Self-Hating Jew

Postby Tom Palven » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:31 am

Tallboy wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:Then, I was just outside doing some mindless yard work and it occurred to me that since both my sets of grandparents were Christian and I view Christianity as ridiculous at best and an abomination at worst, that I must be a Self-Hating Christian!

I've long thought that the term self-hating Jew was pretty ignorant, but this revelation brought it home even more.


I think that terms like 'self-hating Jew' and its analogue for other races are terms used primarily by persecuted minorities to describe those within their group that acquiesce with their tormentors (often to avoid being tormented themselves), and it is often misused. As Christians have traditionally been the majority group in most countries they live, it seems unusual hearing it. But if you were Christian living in a part of the world where you were in the minority and persecuted, then seeing those who you think are colluding with your persecutors as 'self-hating Christians' would probably have some meaning.


You have a point.

But I'm reminded of Twain's statement that "I don't care about a man's color or religion. It's enough to know that he's a human being. He can't be any worse."

Since I've disavowed Christianity, and my love for the US government has waned dramatically, I don't think that I'm a self-hating American or a self-hating Christian, just a self-hating human being.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Self-Hating Jew

Postby Tallboy » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:36 am

Tom Palven wrote:But I'm reminded of Twain's statement that "I don't care about a man's color or religion. It's enough to know that he's a human being. He can't be any worse."
.

well we could all strive to be the best of the worse ;)

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Re: Self-Hating Jew

Postby Tom Palven » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:18 am

In response to my sending the "Dear Liberal Friend" video, a friend of mine sent me this video of protesters dancing at the Jefferson Memorial. 

He told me that Adam Kokesh is a libertarian and that he and Carey Wedler are an item, things I wasn't aware of.

The video is a little scary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrYgjPGgNnc
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Self-Hating Jew

Postby Tallboy » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:06 am

Tom Palven wrote:In response to my sending the "Dear Liberal Friend" video, a friend of mine sent me this video of protesters dancing at the Jefferson Memorial. 

He told me that Adam Kokesh is a libertarian and that he and Carey Wedler are an item, things I wasn't aware of.

it's in the Israellycool link you posted above.

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Re: Self-Hating Jew

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:29 am

Tallboy wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:In response to my sending the "Dear Liberal Friend" video, a friend of mine sent me this video of protesters dancing at the Jefferson Memorial. 

He told me that Adam Kokesh is a libertarian and that he and Carey Wedler are an item, things I wasn't aware of.

it's in the Israellycool link you posted above.


Jeezis.

I guess the name didn't register because I hadn't heard of him up to that point.

That and senility.

But how about the Jefferson Memorial of all places!
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Self-Hating Jew

Postby Tallboy » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:30 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Tallboy wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:In response to my sending the "Dear Liberal Friend" video, a friend of mine sent me this video of protesters dancing at the Jefferson Memorial. 

He told me that Adam Kokesh is a libertarian and that he and Carey Wedler are an item, things I wasn't aware of.

it's in the Israellycool link you posted above.


Jeezis.

I guess the name didn't register because I hadn't heard of him up to that point.

That and senility.

But how about the Jefferson Memorial of all places!


well, i'm not sure i can hear/tell exactly what the issue was by watching the video, but I'm guessing they were told they could dance, just not around the statue? if so, I don't have a problem with that. but the body slamming, etc. appears to be a bit much (I'm understating). ugh.

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Re: Self-Hating Jew

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:43 pm

Tallboy wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
Tallboy wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:In response to my sending the "Dear Liberal Friend" video, a friend of mine sent me this video of protesters dancing at the Jefferson Memorial. 

He told me that Adam Kokesh is a libertarian and that he and Carey Wedler are an item, things I wasn't aware of.

it's in the Israellycool link you posted above.


Jeezis.

I guess the name didn't register because I hadn't heard of him up to that point.

That and senility.

But how about the Jefferson Memorial of all places!


well, i'm not sure i can hear/tell exactly what the issue was by watching the video, but I'm guessing they were told they could dance, just not around the statue? if so, I don't have a problem with that. but the body slamming, etc. appears to be a bit much (I'm understating). ugh.


Well I guess that's understandable since it was Jefferson who said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Who knows what kind of a fever-pitch those people might have worked up while dancing around his statue, and the kind of destruction they might have wreaked on such beloved institutions as NSA and CIA headquarters, the Pentagon, and so on, if they hadn't been stopped!
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Self-Hating Jew

Postby Tallboy » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:49 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Tallboy wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
Tallboy wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:In response to my sending the "Dear Liberal Friend" video, a friend of mine sent me this video of protesters dancing at the Jefferson Memorial. 

He told me that Adam Kokesh is a libertarian and that he and Carey Wedler are an item, things I wasn't aware of.

it's in the Israellycool link you posted above.


Jeezis.

I guess the name didn't register because I hadn't heard of him up to that point.

That and senility.

But how about the Jefferson Memorial of all places!


well, i'm not sure i can hear/tell exactly what the issue was by watching the video, but I'm guessing they were told they could dance, just not around the statue? if so, I don't have a problem with that. but the body slamming, etc. appears to be a bit much (I'm understating). ugh.


Well I guess that's understandable since it was Jefferson who said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Who knows what kind of a fever-pitch those people might have worked up while dancing around his statue, and the kind of destruction they might have wreaked on such beloved institutions as NSA and CIA headquarters, the Pentagon, and so on, if they hadn't been stopped!


on the other hand maybe they work for big pharma? their dancing could easily generate a spike in pepto bismol sales!

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Re: Self-Hating Jew

Postby Scott Mayers » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:57 pm

Tom Palven wrote:...[I'm], just a self-hating human being.

Damn, you anticipated my exact thinking!

(I think I'm also in love with Carey now! :blush: )
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.


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