New Atheism

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:17 am

Austin Harper wrote:What the hell is going on in here?
Chronic schizophrenia. :D

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Re: New Atheism

Postby s13ep » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:19 am

Absolute foe. Chant this!

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:21 am

s13ep wrote:Basically, that emotional and expression stuff that goes on, on the side of conversation. It's ineffable so it's magical, and ritualistic.
1) Set out a list of well know scientific theories, for discussion,
2) Set out a list of your best evidenced spells and magic curses.

We can then apply the scientific method to assess both lists equally? Yes? I's that not your claim?


We are now asking you for hard evidence, so get ready to provide it. :D

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Re: New Atheism

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:23 am

Austin Harper wrote:What the hell is going on in here?


. :quix:




:ahoy:
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby s13ep » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:27 am

*continues dancing the current corporate-gov-academic chant, albeit a little uncomfortable, but at peace; wine glass held up higher this time*

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:35 am

s13ep wrote:*continues dancing the current corporate-gov-academic chant, albeit a little uncomfortable, but at peace; wine glass held up higher this time*
Who are you addressing? The voices in your head, sending you messages or us?

Please learn to write complete English sentences.
:D

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:38 am

Hey, s13ep. Could you address my questions please? If the other comments are distracting I can settle for private messaging. (Are you able to use private messaging on this site?)

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Re: New Atheism

Postby s13ep » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:44 am

Cadmusteeth wrote:Hey, s13ep. Could you address my questions please? If the other comments are distracting I can settle for private messaging. (Are you able to use private messaging on this site?)


I think, the answer is, "it's ineffable", and that's why it's magical and ritualistic. I can't slow down time in effort to capture each movement and tiny expression of a human. It's what goes on, on-the-side of conversation-with-words, the escaping natural forces which we succumb to throughout a debate or discussion!

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:47 am

s13ep wrote: I can't slow down time in effort to capture each movement and tiny expression of a human.
What the hell does this sentence mean in English? :D

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:53 am

s13ep wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:Hey, s13ep. Could you address my questions please? If the other comments are distracting I can settle for private messaging. (Are you able to use private messaging on this site?)


I think, the answer is, "it's ineffable", and that's why it's magical and ritualistic. I can't slow down time in effort to capture each movement and tiny expression of a human. It's what goes on, on-the-side of conversation-with-words, the escaping natural forces which we succumb to throughout a debate or discussion!

I wasn't asking you to give excruciating details on how people act, I was asking if you could answer my questions that I made in this post viewtopic.php?f=30&t=26115#p486053. (sorry for being flippant) I really would like to understand were you're coming from if possible.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby s13ep » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:05 am

My last post to you was an answer to this:

I think I understand. But I also think people here would understand you better if you explain your metaphors.


If you say "how is it?" you must be joking, it's ineffable, meaning I can't explain it.

And my problem with New Atheists and other evils is that they behave irrational, nonsensical and perverse, to people who're not akin to Corporate-Government-Academia, like them.

Such as Cubeists, like myself, or other Atheists, like myself, who don't stand by Academia.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:17 am

s13ep wrote:Such as Cubeists, like myself..............
He's raving mad. I think he belongs to the insane Time Cube lunatic group.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Cube

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Lausten » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:45 am

Boy am I glad I had a horrible meeting to attend today with people that I hope I never have to talk to again.
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Re: New Atheism

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:11 am

s13ep wrote:My last post to you was an answer to this:

I think I understand. But I also think people here would understand you better if you explain your metaphors.


If you say "how is it?" you must be joking, it's ineffable, meaning I can't explain it.

Do you mean you can't explain what your metaphors mean? (is it correct to call them metaphors? I'm mostly calling them that because you said you needed to use metaphors)
If that's the case then we have a major barrier in understanding here. (please correct me if I'm wrong, that would be very appreciated)

s13ep wrote:And my problem with New Atheists and other evils is that they behave irrational, nonsensical and perverse, to people who're not akin to Corporate-Government-Academia, like them.

Such as Cubeists, like myself, or other Atheists, like myself, who don't stand by Academia.
While I understand that people can be nasty on the internet (even atheists) I don't think it's fair to paint a whole group as corrupt based on how overly passionate posters act, and on the institutions they support.
I don't think I really understand what you're trying to convey and the implications that it has. If you can't explain it then I can't really say I'll be understanding it any time soon.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Gord » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:24 am

s13ep wrote:
Gord wrote:I can read. Can you make sense?

Sure.

Wrong.
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Re: New Atheism

Postby s13ep » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:57 am

Explain how waking up is like a Sunrise.

I explained how I could not explain my metaphors, they're ineffable, and I also said I was being literal.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Lausten » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:26 am

s13ep wrote:Explain how waking up is like a Sunrise.

I explained how I could not explain my metaphors, they're ineffable, and I also said I was being literal.

To begin with, deep sleep would be like the dark of night, mostly quiet and you can't see, it's all shadow, so what you can sense may not be what it appears. Then light appears on the horizon, just like you start to come out of deep sleep. A bird chirps in the distance, like the cat jumping on the bed. But it's not full light, like your eyes that aren't quite open, it's blurry. It's get brighter, you're lying awake staring at the ceiling now. Sun's up, get to work.
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Re: New Atheism

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:27 pm

s13ep wrote:Explain how waking up is like a Sunrise.
What exactly does that have to do with the conversation? I'm serious.

s13ep wrote:I explained how I could not explain my metaphors, they're ineffable, and I also said I was being literal.
You shouldn't say you're being literal and using metaphors. That doesn't make sense.
Now if it were more like this:
So your main problem with new atheism, if I'm interpriting this corectly, is that people online who support it are tossing around science phrases and expecting those with opposing views to just understand. Is that right?
That would make more sense to me, that's why I ask if this is what you meant by what you said.

If you can't help explain it, how do you expect me or anyone else to really understand? (I'm trying understand what you're trying to tell us here)

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Re: New Atheism

Postby s13ep » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:46 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:
s13ep wrote:Explain how waking up is like a Sunrise.
What exactly does that have to do with the conversation? I'm serious.

s13ep wrote:I explained how I could not explain my metaphors, they're ineffable, and I also said I was being literal.
You shouldn't say you're being literal and using metaphors. That doesn't make sense.
Now if it were more like this:
So your main problem with new atheism, if I'm interpriting this corectly, is that people online who support it are tossing around science phrases and expecting those with opposing views to just understand. Is that right?
That would make more sense to me, that's why I ask if this is what you meant by what you said.

If you can't help explain it, how do you expect me or anyone else to really understand? (I'm trying understand what you're trying to tell us here)



Ineffable, in this context, means it can be seen but not uttered. Simple stuff.

Yet you continue with the progressive thought that it's my own ineptitude; in short, none can explain the ineffable.

I'm also being literal, and my, what you called 'metaphors', refer to something visible!

So, first explain where I used a metaphor, and how you came to that decision, and finally, utter something ineffable, like you imply you can with your undercover New Atheism.

How I know you're a New Atheist; the second or third poster to this thread complied, and you just said, "how do you expect anyone to understand?"

Well, to be honest mate, reading your perversity potentially damages my mind. You're now a foe, you and everyone who understands your drivel, stick together.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Lausten » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:57 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:
s13ep wrote:Explain how waking up is like a Sunrise.
What exactly does that have to do with the conversation? I'm serious.

My assumption, and given the purposeful obfuscation, that's all I can do, is that it was meant to be rhetorical. That is, it's assumed you can't explain that metaphor, therefore, it's okay for s13ep to not explain metaphors. Of course that's not true. The whole point of a metaphor is to attempt to describe what is difficult to describe, or to add to a description. Sure, if you're Bob Dylan, you don't have to explain your metaphors, they speak for themselves, and the fact that people talk about them and say how his metaphors helped them understand is proof enough that they are powerful metaphors. s13ep is no Bob Dylan.
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Re: New Atheism

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:05 pm

Sideways thread is sideways.

Completely unexpected.
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Re: New Atheism

Postby toroid » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:06 pm

s13ep wrote:My last post to you was an answer to this:

I think I understand. But I also think people here would understand you better if you explain your metaphors.


If you say "how is it?" you must be joking, it's ineffable, meaning I can't explain it.

And my problem with New Atheists and other evils is that they behave irrational, nonsensical and perverse, to people who're not akin to Corporate-Government-Academia, like them.

Such as Cubeists, like myself, or other Atheists, like myself, who don't stand by Academia.


Is your Cubeism related to the Cubists in An Earth Gone Mad? (scroll down in link)
https://www.sff.net/people/richard.horton/aced34.htm

..."The story opens with Paul Shannon leaving Io after having been marooned there for 2 years. (Dee's Io is apparently possessed of a breathable atmosphere and human-edible plants and animals, albeit in a generally hostile environment.) With the help of an inscrutable rocklike alien, he has repaired his crashed spaceship, and he limps back to Earth. But once on Earth, he finds that strange changes have occurred. A growing proportion of the population seems hypnotized into serenity and passiveness by the influence of some strange cubes that dropped from space -- these are the Cubists. (I don't know if Dee intended a reference to the modern art movement.) The rest of the US seems split down the middle -- the corporate oriented "Syndicate" is pro-Cubist, more or less, because the Cubists make tractable workers, while the labor unions are opposed, because Cubists are taking the jobs of ordinary workers. The government tries to toe a middle line.

Shannon's instincts are strongly anti-Cubist, especially after he encounters his fiancee, who has become a Cubist, and is horribly changed thereby. He becomes obsessed with finding a way to counteract the effects of the Cubes. But he also finds himself mysteriously pursued by several different agents -- people from the government, the unions, and the syndicate (including his Space Service employers). And he has been impersonated, with his stand in having delivered a rabid anti-Cube rant during a staged interview. Finally, he is picked up by a beautiful, fiery, young woman, Ruth Nugent, who takes him to another center of resistance to the Cubes -- this a group of scientists (including Ruth's physicist fiance) who have built a NAFAL spaceship with which they plan to flee to Procyon and set up a new colony free of the Cubes. They want Shannon's help -- but he is convinced that there way is cowardly, and that something must be done to free the Cubists from the baleful influence of the Cubes...."

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Re: New Atheism

Postby toroid » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:11 pm

Lausten wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:
s13ep wrote:Explain how waking up is like a Sunrise.
What exactly does that have to do with the conversation? I'm serious.

My assumption, and given the purposeful obfuscation, that's all I can do, is that it was meant to be rhetorical. That is, it's assumed you can't explain that metaphor, therefore, it's okay for s13ep to not explain metaphors. Of course that's not true. The whole point of a metaphor is to attempt to describe what is difficult to describe, or to add to a description. Sure, if you're Bob Dylan, you don't have to explain your metaphors, they speak for themselves, and the fact that people talk about them and say how his metaphors helped them understand is proof enough that they are powerful metaphors. s13ep is no Bob Dylan.


Dylan to my surprise turned Christian. (Even geniuses can go astray when they go beyond their areas of expertise.)

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Re: New Atheism

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:42 pm

s13ep wrote:Explain how waking up is like a Sunrise.

I explained how I could not explain my metaphors, they're ineffable, and I also said I was being literal.

This is like watching supervitor having worked his/her Twelve-Steps and having become one of the oh-so-holy self-righteous "Enlightened" ones that program tends to spawn. :lol:
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Re: New Atheism

Postby Monster » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:51 pm

s13ep wrote:...and finally, utter something ineffable, ...

"Hastur".
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Re: New Atheism

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:37 pm

Hey s13ep, I sent you a private message. You can check it in the upper right corner of the page.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby s13ep » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:07 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:Hello, just thought I'd reply to you through this format. My reply is below.
===========================================================================
s13ep wrote:
Ineffable, in this context, means it can be seen but not uttered. Simple stuff.
So what you said in your opening post was supposed to be self-explanatory? If so, I was trying to see if the way I interpreted it was correct, and I'm sorry for asking so many questions and being repetitive.

s13ep wrote:Yet you continue with the progressive thought that it's my own ineptitude; in short, none can explain the ineffable.
I wasn't trying to say you're inept, I was trying to see if what I said about what you've written was correct.

s13ep wrote:I'm also being literal, and my, what you called 'metaphors', refer to something visible!

So, first explain where I used a metaphor, and how you came to that decision, and finally, utter something ineffable, like you imply you can with your undercover New Atheism.
When I asked you this: "Could you clarify what you mean by your choice if phrases here?"
You replied, "I'm being as literal as possible, but sometimes your magic is so strange I must take a metaphorical approach!"
So I guess I misunderstood what you meant by that and apologize for the confusion.

s13ep wrote:How I know you're a New Atheist; the second or third poster to this thread complied, and you just said, "how do you expect anyone to understand?"
As much as I can infer that what you said was supposed self-explanatory, I still wanted to know if how I interpreted here was correct: "So your main problem with new atheism, if I'm interpreting this correctly, is that people online who support it are tossing around science phrases and expecting those with opposing views to just understand."
A simple yes or no will do.
===========================================================================
You don't have to reply right away, I can wait.


It was correct, your interpretation, apart from it's far more magical and ritualistic than it seems, and carries on into the offline world.

I cannot explain how I feel after I'm greeted with the typical evil words,
I cannot explain the complexity of expressions, of people in discussion.
I can merely say it's magic of expressions, emotions and words.

It's magic because it consists of many different falsehoods; the unreal, death, manipulation, illusion, alteration, alchemy, probably; the things you'd expect to find in a video game.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Cadmusteeth » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:13 pm

It was requested of me to post the contents of a private message here in the thread. But it looks like s13ep already did that, so, never mind that then.
Last edited by Cadmusteeth on Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Lausten » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:21 pm

s13ep wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:
I cannot explain how I feel after I'm greeted with the typical evil words,
I cannot explain the complexity of expressions, of people in discussion.
I can merely say it's magic of expressions, emotions and words.

This is my wife isn't it? Honey, I know it's you. You figured out how to get logged in to this forum didn't you?
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Re: New Atheism

Postby TJrandom » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:25 pm

Lausten wrote:
s13ep wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:
I cannot explain how I feel after I'm greeted with the typical evil words,
I cannot explain the complexity of expressions, of people in discussion.
I can merely say it's magic of expressions, emotions and words.

This is my wife isn't it? Honey, I know it's you. You figured out how to get logged in to this forum didn't you?


My condolences… ;)

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Gord » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:19 pm

s13ep wrote:Explain how waking up is like a Sunrise.

Because it can produce a few notes, tho they are very flat; and it is never put with the wrong end in front!

TJrandom wrote:
Lausten wrote:
s13ep wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:
I cannot explain how I feel after I'm greeted with the typical evil words,
I cannot explain the complexity of expressions, of people in discussion.
I can merely say it's magic of expressions, emotions and words.

This is my wife isn't it? Honey, I know it's you. You figured out how to get logged in to this forum didn't you?

My condolences… ;)

To which one? ;)
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Re: New Atheism

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:24 am

s13ep wrote:
It was correct, your interpretation, apart from it's far more magical and ritualistic than it seems, and carries on into the offline world.
So are you saying that all New Atheists literally hold beliefs in the supernatural? (I know you've said you were being literal, but this is still very unusual to me)

s13ep wrote:I cannot explain how I feel after I'm greeted with the typical evil words,
I cannot explain the complexity of expressions, of people in discussion.
I can merely say it's magic of expressions, emotions and words.

Could you give me some examples of what certain people have said?

s13ep wrote:It's magic because it consists of many different falsehoods; the unreal, death, manipulation, illusion, alteration, alchemy, probably; the things you'd expect to find in a video game.
How have people used these concepts in the conversations you've had? General examples would help.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Monster » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:15 pm

s13ep, typically when people write stuff online, they want to be understood by other people. Being understood doesn't seem to interest you. What is your purpose with your posts here?
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Re: New Atheism

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:47 pm

Monster wrote:s13ep, typically when people write stuff online, they want to be understood by other people. Being understood doesn't seem to interest you. What is your purpose with your posts here?

He's promoting fiber.

And word salad has lots of fiber.
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Re: New Atheism

Postby s13ep » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:03 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:
s13ep wrote:
It was correct, your interpretation, apart from it's far more magical and ritualistic than it seems, and carries on into the offline world.
So are you saying that all New Atheists literally hold beliefs in the supernatural? (I know you've said you were being literal, but this is still very unusual to me)

s13ep wrote:I cannot explain how I feel after I'm greeted with the typical evil words,
I cannot explain the complexity of expressions, of people in discussion.
I can merely say it's magic of expressions, emotions and words.

Could you give me some examples of what certain people have said?

s13ep wrote:It's magic because it consists of many different falsehoods; the unreal, death, manipulation, illusion, alteration, alchemy, probably; the things you'd expect to find in a video game.
How have people used these concepts in the conversations you've had? General examples would help.


This is very ignorant of the thread, so far.

You, yourself, are like a walking invisibility spell; and before you come in holding in laughter about it---I'm being serious, again, which you'll take from me.

Don't private message me again.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:37 pm

I'm more concernd by what you've writen than amused. If my first question in the last post seemed like I thought what you've written was funny, then I'm sorry for poor choice of words.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:38 pm

s13ep wrote:-I'm being serious, again, which you'll take from me.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Poodle » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:48 pm

What you're saying, s13ep, it just isn't, you know? It's more like effability is just upside down. Like bacon.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:51 am

:soppy:
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: New Atheism

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:23 am

OK. I come late to the discussion, but it's never too late ti ride my hobbyhorse. ;)

I start with the premise that there is no "atheist movement". Rather there are movements that feature atheism.

atheist: One who believes that there are no gods or is no God.

    Likely oriented toward rejecting the religion one grew up with, or that is prevalent where one lives, but that is not an essential feecher.

    Can also include rejecting religion for lack of evidences.

    Includes my own position: That I cannot absolutely prove there is no God, but I can do a pretty good job on any of the flavors of the Almighty that believers actually believe in.

New Atheist: Two separate meanings that meanings play into each others' hands.

    #1 -- People associated with movements that somehow claim to be The One True Atheism TM.
    (e.g. "Brights" , Peeziasts, etc).

    #2 -- A strawman for theists to whomp. An epithet for atheists who especially annoy theists, whether fitting New Atheist definition #1 or not.
Scientists don't know everything, therefore my favorite flavor of stoopidz is true.


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