"Does god exist" debate

God, the FSM, and everything else.
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mapache 606
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby mapache 606 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:03 am

Donnageddon wrote:
mapache 606 wrote:Don, Don. Your open mindedness is all I can hope for even with a bear trap trigger. You haven't closed your mind and for that I am happy.
....

I do NOT believe that God exist!
I KNOW that God exist!
The evidence is very clear.


My friend mapache, I do not reckon anyone here has their mind closed. But like me they just have a filter for illogical bull shite.

As for you KNOWING that God exists; I assume this is by personal revelation. I cannot argue against your personal revelation. It would be better if you had some proof, because your personal revelation, to me, could just be a brain tumor.


My Pal, Don, Don. No, not personal revelation. Like I said, empirical evidence. Experience and observation of the reality around us. The same way a scientist comes to a conclusion. The trick is, you need the appropriate instruments and have them turned to the on position.

Take care, Don
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Donnageddon » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:35 am

mapache 606 wrote:
Donnageddon wrote:
mapache 606 wrote:Don, Don. Your open mindedness is all I can hope for even with a bear trap trigger. You haven't closed your mind and for that I am happy.
....

I do NOT believe that God exist!
I KNOW that God exist!
The evidence is very clear.


My friend mapache, I do not reckon anyone here has their mind closed. But like me they just have a filter for illogical bull shite.

As for you KNOWING that God exists; I assume this is by personal revelation. I cannot argue against your personal revelation. It would be better if you had some proof, because your personal revelation, to me, could just be a brain tumor.


My Pal, Don, Don. No, not personal revelation. Like I said, empirical evidence. Experience and observation of the reality around us. The same way a scientist comes to a conclusion. The trick is, you need the appropriate instruments and have them turned to the on position.


mapache, you would be doing me a great favor if you would share the empirical evidence that enables you to KNOW God exists. You state you KNOW that God exists in the same way a scientist arrives at a conclusion.

I beseech, please share with me your conclusive evidence. And how I can acquire the appropriate scientific instrumentation and turn it to the appropriate position.

You may be on the way to proving to all unbelievers that God conclusively exists.

This is very exciting.
My name is not Donna.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby moth1ne » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:27 am

mapache 606 wrote:
Donnageddon wrote:
mapache 606 wrote:Don, Don. Your open mindedness is all I can hope for even with a bear trap trigger. You haven't closed your mind and for that I am happy.
....

I do NOT believe that God exist!
I KNOW that God exist!
The evidence is very clear.


My friend mapache, I do not reckon anyone here has their mind closed. But like me they just have a filter for illogical bull shite.

As for you KNOWING that God exists; I assume this is by personal revelation. I cannot argue against your personal revelation. It would be better if you had some proof, because your personal revelation, to me, could just be a brain tumor.


My Pal, Don, Don. No, not personal revelation. Like I said, empirical evidence. Experience and observation of the reality around us. The same way a scientist comes to a conclusion. The trick is, you need the appropriate instruments and have them turned to the on position.

Take care, Don
Mapache

Wait, so you are choosing what you believe? Ok well I believe my guy beats your guy because he has more strength and dexterity than your guy in every way!
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -Carl Sagan, The Demon Haunted World

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Gord » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:34 am

moth1ne wrote:...I believe my guy beats your guy because he has more strength and dexterity than your guy in every way!

That's it, roll initiative.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby whitmancharles » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:21 am

My god has an adamantium, kryptonite plated skeleton. In short, he pwns Abraham's God. I even have the edition where he beats Thor with one punch. My God is an Awesome God! Ps. he also sustains the universe, so take that atheists. He has to exist! We wouldn't exist if he didn't. That's why there's something rather than nothing.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby mapache 606 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:55 pm

Donnageddon wrote:
mapache 606 wrote:
Donnageddon wrote:
mapache 606 wrote:Don, Don. Your open mindedness is all I can hope for even with a bear trap trigger. You haven't closed your mind and for that I am happy.
....

I do NOT believe that God exist!
I KNOW that God exist!
The evidence is very clear.


My friend mapache, I do not reckon anyone here has their mind closed. But like me they just have a filter for illogical bull shite.

As for you KNOWING that God exists; I assume this is by personal revelation. I cannot argue against your personal revelation. It would be better if you had some proof, because your personal revelation, to me, could just be a brain tumor.




My Pal, Don, Don. No, not personal revelation. Like I said, empirical evidence. Experience and observation of the reality around us. The same way a scientist comes to a conclusion. The trick is, you need the appropriate instruments and have them turned to the on position.


mapache, you would be doing me a great favor if you would share the empirical evidence that enables you to KNOW God exists. You state you KNOW that God exists in the same way a scientist arrives at a conclusion.

I beseech, please share with me your conclusive evidence. And how I can acquire the appropriate scientific instrumentation and turn it to the appropriate position.

You may be on the way to proving to all unbelievers that God conclusively exists.

This is very exciting.


:lol: You crack me up, Don, Don. You really do. :lol:
Adios my friend ;)
Your Pal, Mapache 8-)
Such a life on such a planet!

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Austin Harper » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:50 pm

Don makes a very good point, mapache.
If you know that God exists, please provide the evidence that has given you this knowledge.
If you do not have any evidence, then you merely believe God exists.
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby fromthehills » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:46 pm

Austin Harper wrote:Don makes a very good point, mapache.
If you know that God exists, please provide the evidence that has given you this knowledge.
If you do not have any evidence, then you merely believe God exists.


Dude, you can read it in the chemtrails.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Austin Harper » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:57 pm

Are the chemtrails in Hebrew? I don't speak Hebrew.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Chachacha » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:15 pm

My dog is GREAT at following chemtrails! Let me know if he can be of service to the cause.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby fromthehills » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:49 pm

Chachacha wrote:My dog is GREAT at following chemtrails! Let me know if he can be of service to the cause.

Can your dog read backwards?

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Gord » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:21 pm

fromthehills wrote:
Chachacha wrote:My dog is GREAT at following chemtrails! Let me know if he can be of service to the cause.

Can your dog read backwards?

Yes, but only if you pay him in Scooby snacks.

Ruh-roh!
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Chachacha » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:37 am

fromthehills wrote:
Chachacha wrote:My dog is GREAT at following chemtrails! Let me know if he can be of service to the cause.

Can your dog read backwards?



No, but he can speak in tongue.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Donnageddon » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:51 am

My dog just sniffs other dogs nether regions.

What was the topic?
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:16 am

Donnageddon wrote:My dog just sniffs other dogs nether regions.

What was the topic?


"Does dog exist" debate?
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Donnageddon » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:25 am

Then yes.

I think. Maybe.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:39 am

Donnageddon wrote:Then yes.

I think. Maybe.


I KNOW he exists :doggy: ... as does kitten :kit:
.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Chachacha » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:01 pm

Donnageddon wrote:Then yes.

I think. Maybe.



Hmmmm, you sound like you're dognostic.

No wait, that would mean you know dog exists.

....

So you're dogagnostic ... or adognostic. :)

OR an adognostic dogist.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Chachacha » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:06 pm

FINALLY, a description of what I am, and not what I am not: I am a dogist!!!




Who let the dogist out? Who who who?

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby fromthehills » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:46 pm

My dog is godmatic.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Poodle » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:58 pm

Made me chuckle, that one :D

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Monster » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:47 pm

Bunyip wrote:I suggests anyone seriously interested in the topic take the time to read/ listen to the famous Bertrand Russell- Frederick C Copleton SJ debate (1948)

TRANSCRIPT:

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p20.htm.


The recording

http://www.philvaz.com/RussellCoplestonDebate.mp3

I'm listening to this now. The voices of those debaters are great. They sound like cartoon characters.

I keep expecting to hear "Right good show, old chap!"

EDIT: The ending is great:

Russell: Yes it's very hard to discuss it. Shall we pass on to some other issue?
Copleston: Let's.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby jojo » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:05 pm

The atheist cannot explain how the Universe was created from nothing. He/She is left with the problem of continuing backward with the same problem (e.g. querks, multi-verse, etc...), nothing to initiate the existence of the universe. There are only a couple of things that are transcendent of this Universe that could have initiated the universe(e.g. numbers and God). Since numbers can't cause anything, it follows that it has to be God. There is no other conceivable possibility. If there is anything that can be thought of, then that is God (something transcendent that can initiate creation). Therefore, it is illogical to be an atheist.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby fromthehills » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:31 am

jojo wrote:The atheist cannot explain how the Universe was created from nothing. He/She is left with the problem of continuing backward with the same problem (e.g. querks, multi-verse, etc...), nothing to initiate the existence of the universe. There are only a couple of things that are transcendent of this Universe that could have initiated the universe(e.g. numbers and God). Since numbers can't cause anything, it follows that it has to be God. There is no other conceivable possibility. If there is anything that can be thought of, then that is God (something transcendent that can initiate creation). Therefore, it is illogical to be an atheist.



Is this a drive by? Or are you seriously thinking you have an actual argument, here?

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:36 am

fromthehills wrote: Is this a drive by? Or are you seriously thinking you have an actual argument, here?
I'd say a drive by. Let's wait and see. You were "first in" so you get first reply if Jojo posts again.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby jojo » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:36 am

Argument

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby TheUltimateBlitz1 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:52 am

Jojo read some articles and book by Lawrence Krauss a theoretical physicist and cosmologist. He even wrote a book specifically for this question and the title "A universe from nothing"

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Daedalus » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:56 am

jojo wrote:The atheist cannot explain how the Universe was created from nothing. He/She is left with the problem of continuing backward with the same problem (e.g. querks, multi-verse, etc...), nothing to initiate the existence of the universe. There are only a couple of things that are transcendent of this Universe that could have initiated the universe(e.g. numbers and God). Since numbers can't cause anything, it follows that it has to be God. There is no other conceivable possibility. If there is anything that can be thought of, then that is God (something transcendent that can initiate creation). Therefore, it is illogical to be an atheist.


The theist cannot explain how god was created from nothing... meaning that he and the atheist are in the same boat, except that the atheist isn't pretending to have answers.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby jojo » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:58 am

I would love to hear it from you, that way I understand the parts to which you are referring. I am familiar with him. Are you sure that Lawrence Krauss understands the meaning of nothing? Nothing, as in no properties. As in not anything.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby jojo » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:01 am

Transcendent means outside of creation. It doesn't make sense for something that initiated all of creation to be included in creation. Why is the fact that God had no beginning, make you conclude that there is no God? Why does he have to be created if he is not part of creation?

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby jojo » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:04 am

If the theist and atheist are in the same boat, then I would consider the only one that is offering an answer. If you don't know the answer, then how to you know that God is not the right answer?

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:05 am

.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Daedalus » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:06 am

jojo wrote:If the theist and atheist are in the same boat, then I would consider the only one that is offering an answer. If you don't know the answer, then how to you know that God is not the right answer?


You don't know, but not knowing doesn't give you license to make things up because you happen to like it. You don't know a cure for cancer, but that doesn't mean you're going to whip one up with ingredients from your cupboard either. It's OK not to have answers... it's not OK to make them up.

jojo wrote:Transcendent means outside of creation. It doesn't make sense for something that initiated all of creation to be included in creation. Why is the fact that God had no beginning, make you conclude that there is no God? Why does he have to be created if he is not part of creation?


If you can make an exception for a god, why not for a universe? Just say the conditions for a universe have always existed... the end.

If you want to claim that a being beyond creation is a special exception, then you've already given up any attempt at a logical argument and have begged the question.
Last edited by Daedalus on Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby TheUltimateBlitz1 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:06 am

Well Krauss is a physicist and with his knowledge and the recent discovery of quantum physics shows us that the world could be created from nothing. Whether it expanded from another universe or something else, but their will always be another step in the puzzle. And with the recent discovery of the Higgs Boson we now know what could have been a catalyst or similar to a catalyst that started the Big Bang. But what are your opinions on the origins of the universe?

PS Give me a damn chance to post!

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby TheUltimateBlitz1 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:10 am

And Jojo everything has to have a beginning. Something cannot appear into existence without some sort of catalyst or starting point. A god must have a beginning and if it created itself then someone else would have created that god. As I said earlier there are an infinite amount of steps that need to be processed in order to discover the origins of the universe

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:19 am

jojo wrote:The atheist cannot explain how the Universe was created from nothing.
The atheist doesn't believe in gods. The scientist offers theories about the nature of the singularity from which the big bang came from. You have confused atheists with scientists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brane_cosmology

jojo wrote:He/She is left with the problem of continuing backward with the same problem (e.g. querks, multi-verse, etc...), nothing to initiate the existence of the universe.
No. Scientists have put forward some varying theories that need to be tested through experimentation. Ever heard of the Large Hadron Collider? It only started working a year ago.

What experiments or evidence are you Christians working on to prove "god"? Please list them if you know any.



jojo wrote:There are only a couple of things that are transcendent of this Universe that could have initiated the universe(e.g. numbers and God).
"God" is a middle eastern invention from literature, 13.7 billion years after the big bang. You seem to have a massive timing problem with your logic. Did this fictional "god" go back in time? I have no idea what you mean by numbers

jojo wrote:Since numbers can't cause anything
Do you mean physics rather than "numbers"?

jojo wrote:it follows that it has to be God.
No. "God" did not leap out of middle eastern mythology, go back 13.7 billion years and start the big bang. "God" was busy winning and losing battles for Israel in stories around fires.

Judges 21 The elders of Israel asked, “Why did the LORD let us be defeated today by the Philistines? Let’s bring the ark of the LORD’s covenant from Shiloh. Then it will go with us and save us from the hand of our enemies.” (v3) Lost the next battle and lost the Ark.

jojo wrote:If there is anything that can be thought of, then that is God (something transcendent that can initiate creation).
The physical nature of the singularity ( being investigated by scientists today) has more to do with the big bang than a fictional god from bronze age, middle eastern literature 13.7 million years after the big bang.

jojo wrote:Therefore, it is illogical to be an atheist.
Not in the slightest. Do you think Batman can really save New York? Do you think Sherlock Holmes can really solve real crimes? Do you think Shiva can turn a man into a monkey? Do you think the 30,000 year old Venus of Willendorf could really help hunters kill their prey? Of course not. They are all fictional characters from books or art. So is your "God".

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:31 am

jojo wrote: If you don't know the answer, then how to you know that God is not the right answer?


How do you know Ra (the Egyptian god) is not the answer?
How do you know Lord Brahma ( A Hindu god) is not the answer?

You have dug yourself into a hole.

Atheists are quite happy for science to take its time to obtain the best evidence for the best scientific theory. It's not a race.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Kaepora Gaebora » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:34 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
jojo wrote:Since numbers can't cause anything
Do you mean physics rather than "numbers"?


I believe he's talking about the existence of numbers. A lot of philosophers in Greco-Roman times believed numbers existed by themselves in another ideas plane, such as Plato. However, this is easily disprovable because numbers are an invention by man; they exist because man created them to count amount of objects. They don't exist by themselves. They describe amounts of things.

Additionally, numerical systems don't have to follow our common decimal system. They can choose base-7 for example. (6 + 1 = 10 in base 7)

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Kaepora Gaebora » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:35 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
jojo wrote: If you don't know the answer, then how to you know that God is not the right answer?


How do you know Ra (the Egyptian god) is not the answer?
How do you know Lord Brahma ( A Hindu god) is not the answer?

You have dug yourself into a hole.

Atheists are quite happy for science to take its time to obtain the best evidence for the best scientific theory. It's not a race.


I know that The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the answer. :mrgreen:

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby jojo » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:37 am

@ Daedelus: It is far more logical that a transcendent being created the universe, than that the universe just popped into being. Now you know that science has shown that the universe is not infinite. Why would you claim that it is infinite against what most science are now claiming?


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