"Does god exist" debate

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"Does god exist" debate

Postby Monster » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:31 pm

While I work, I'm listening to a debate between Hitchens and William Lane Craig entitled "Does god exist?" which toook place at Biola Universty.

Craig started, and he stated his 5 arguments for why he thinks his god exists. What I don't get, is why is it necessary to make these arguments and infer the existence of his god? Why not have some actual evidence?

Sorry, I'm just complaining aimlessly.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:57 pm

They have to persuade people to give up reality and start believing. First thing is to shut down the reasoning part of the mind.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Monster » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:00 pm

I listened to the entire debate. Craig is a somewhat good debater, but not good with logic and reason. He gave me a headache. Like I said in another thread, debate is about winning. Logic and truth are irrelevant.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby mapache 606 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:41 pm

The problem is what is evidence? In a material world we look for material evidence. If God is material then one would expect similar evidence. If God is not material then what evidence would suffice? Our minds appear to be the less material thing we know so maybe that is the place to look. If there is a non-material detector there then that would be the instrument to use. I don't know. We know that material reality exists because we have detectors to perceive it, eyes, ears, etc. If we turned those dectors off, no sight, hearing, touching etc. then would material reality be there? What would you sense with no sensors? With a TV you can pick up TV programs with images but not with a radio. Would there be evidence for TV shows if you were looking with a radio?
I have asked this question before. What evidence are you expecting?
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Monster » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:04 pm

mapache 606 wrote:The problem is what is evidence? In a material world we look for material evidence. If God is material then one would expect similar evidence. If God is not material then what evidence would suffice? Our minds appear to be the less material thing we know so maybe that is the place to look. If there is a non-material detector there then that would be the instrument to use. I don't know. We know that material reality exists because we have detectors to perceive it, eyes, ears, etc. If we turned those dectors off, no sight, hearing, touching etc. then would material reality be there? What would you sense with no sensors? With a TV you can pick up TV programs with images but not with a radio. Would there be evidence for TV shows if you were looking with a radio?
I have asked this question before. What evidence are you expecting?

Thanks for reminding me. No evidence is sufficient for the existence of god. Its existence can't be proven nor disproven.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby busterggi » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:39 pm

mapache 606 wrote:The problem is what is evidence? In a material world we look for material evidence. If God is material then one would expect similar evidence. If God is not material then what evidence would suffice? Our minds appear to be the less material thing we know so maybe that is the place to look. If there is a non-material detector there then that would be the instrument to use. I don't know. We know that material reality exists because we have detectors to perceive it, eyes, ears, etc. If we turned those dectors off, no sight, hearing, touching etc. then would material reality be there? What would you sense with no sensors? With a TV you can pick up TV programs with images but not with a radio. Would there be evidence for TV shows if you were looking with a radio?
I have asked this question before. What evidence are you expecting?


According to the bible, which WLC believes in, there should be plenty of evidence - burning bushes, talking snakes/donkeys, angels with flaming swords standing outside a walled garden, thunderous voices from the sky, etc.

If there was a god who could do that in the past then he should be able to do that now.

I'd still be skeptical but at least there would be something substantial to study.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby mapache 606 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:45 pm

busterggi wrote:
mapache 606 wrote:I have asked this question before. What evidence are you expecting?


According to the bible, which WLC believes in, there should be plenty of evidence - burning bushes, talking snakes/donkeys, angels with flaming swords standing outside a walled garden, thunderous voices from the sky, etc.

If there was a god who could do that in the past then he should be able to do that now.

I'd still be skeptical but at least there would be something substantial to study.


There in lies the problem! "According to the Bible" a document filled with ignorant statements and beliefs. I wouldn't expect material evidence unless you consider the universe as evidence or at least something that makes you ask the question, where did it come from. I prefer saying I have personal confirmation rather than evidence. There is no proof one way or the other but for me the scales are slightly tip toward the affirmative.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:32 am

As I have said before, it all depends on your model of 'God'.

If you follow the Christian model - which is an all mighty skydaddy who takes an intense interest in everything we do and wants us to worship hi/her/it, and be good so we can all go to the wonderful celestial paradise when we die - then we can make certain predictions. Like, such a deity would not allow an atheist not to believe for lack of tangible evidence.......

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby whitmancharles » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:53 pm

If I say God, meaning the Christian God, doesn't exist, then theists will just backpedal and redefine God to mean something else, moving the goal post. The problem with theology in general is its flawed methodology, or that it doesn't have one. The only difference between science and theology is that science actually answers questions. Theology asks questions no one can answer and provides no means by witch to answer its questions. "What's the meaning of life?" No one knows and the question is BS. What's the square root of 1,220,220,330,224? I don't know, but I could probably find out if it even has an answer, and that's something I could find out.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby moth1ne » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:06 am

Intellectual christians (WLC)... always trying to rationalize something totally irrational. Why believe something with no evidence? The fundamental principle of seeking truth is to gather scientific evidence. If there is no physical evidence then why bother? Sorry, there is physical evidence, it's the bible and it is true because it says it's true.

Young children are the best atheists, until their minds are coaxed into faith. Children ask questions like, "Who created god?" Of course parents and followers of faith will strike down their inquiries with no-nonsense answers like, "God is mysterious and his ways are beyond our capacity of thought". Still never answering their question. As science advances, the desperate manner in which theologians and believers try to rationalize their faith will also advance.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -Carl Sagan, The Demon Haunted World

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Monster » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:19 pm

So much discussion and I hadn't even posted a link to the debate.

By the way, I think Hitchens totally lost the debate. The debate was about "Does god Exist" and Hitchens spoke like he was arguing against the goodness of Chistianity. Totally separate topics. Craig made a few logical mistakes, but believers won't notice nor will they care.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby mapache 606 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:00 pm

moth1ne wrote:
Young children are the best atheists, until their minds are coaxed into faith. Children ask questions like, "Who created god?" Of course parents and followers of faith will strike down their inquiries with no-nonsense answers like, "God is mysterious and his ways are beyond our capacity of thought". Still never answering their question. As science advances, the desperate manner in which theologians and believers try to rationalize their faith will also advance.


Children are not atheist. We are born neutral and are impressed upon by our culture, even an atheist culture. To ask who created God is not an atheist question but it is one a child would ask. My question is why does an atheist take a stance against a belief perpetuated in ignorance? Scientist believe that the universe and life came from the big bang, but I wouldn't ask what caused the big bang because it is perpetuated in ignorance.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby mapache 606 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:10 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:As I have said before, it all depends on your model of 'God'.

If you follow the Christian model - which is an all mighty skydaddy who takes an intense interest in everything we do and wants us to worship hi/her/it, and be good so we can all go to the wonderful celestial paradise when we die - then we can make certain predictions. Like, such a deity would not allow an atheist not to believe for lack of tangible evidence.......


If you had no tangible evidence that you had a father would you believe you had one?
If you were not able to see the process of a caterpillar changing into a butterfly, would you believe it?
I have tangible evidence for the existence of God, don't you?
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby moth1ne » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:19 pm

mapache 606 wrote:
moth1ne wrote:
Young children are the best atheists, until their minds are coaxed into faith. Children ask questions like, "Who created god?" Of course parents and followers of faith will strike down their inquiries with no-nonsense answers like, "God is mysterious and his ways are beyond our capacity of thought". Still never answering their question. As science advances, the desperate manner in which theologians and believers try to rationalize their faith will also advance.


Children are not atheist. We are born neutral and are impressed upon by our culture, even an atheist culture. To ask who created God is not an atheist question but it is one a child would ask. My question is why does an atheist take a stance against a belief perpetuated in ignorance? Scientist believe that the universe and life came from the big bang, but I wouldn't ask what caused the big bang because it is perpetuated in ignorance.


Atheists are people that do not have a belief in any god. So yes, children are born atheists. They do not understand the concept of religion therefor they do not follow a religious dogma. Although you are correct, children will be impressed upon by their cultural upbringing but neutrality is not the term I would use, I would use atheist. The point I was trying to make is that children are inquisitive in nature and asking questions about existence is an application of the scientific method and when a religious answer is given such as, "God has always existed." That does not answer the question, it just circles around it. It is easier to answer children with "God did it" then to answer with "I don't know". Maybe it is not an atheist question, but it is a question that could sway someone from the assumption that God exists because the bible says he exists, which is circular reasoning.

Scientist believe that the universe and life came from the big bang, but I wouldn't ask what caused the big bang because it is perpetuated in ignorance.


Well if we didn't ask the question, "What caused the big bang?" then we would never know and I do believe science is currently trying to discover that. As far off as they may be from that discovery, I don't believe they will just stop searching for the truth. The big bang is currently the most sound theory to explain the formation of the universe but that is not to say that new theories will not be spun up and challenge it. It is the method of science.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby whitmancharles » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:54 am

mapache 606 wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:As I have said before, it all depends on your model of 'God'.

If you follow the Christian model - which is an all mighty skydaddy who takes an intense interest in everything we do and wants us to worship hi/her/it, and be good so we can all go to the wonderful celestial paradise when we die - then we can make certain predictions. Like, such a deity would not allow an atheist not to believe for lack of tangible evidence.......


If you had no tangible evidence that you had a father would you believe you had one?
If you were not able to see the process of a caterpillar changing into a butterfly, would you believe it?
I have tangible evidence for the existence of God, don't you?


If we didn't have evidence of any of those things, then no, we would not have any reason to believe them. If I had absolutely no evidence or prior experience of my father or other humans' fathers, then I would not have reason to believe fathers exist and, most importantly, I wouldn't have anything that was demonstrable. It's not what you can imagine that counts, but what you can demonstrate.
I have a feeling that what you are trying to get at is something along the lines of a teleological argument. The problem with fathers and caterpillars is that we have such obvious experiences with those things; it would seem completely absurd to say one had no father. The difference between these things and god is that we have experiences, demonstrable evidence to prove these things, so much that it seems we wouldn't need any evidence at all to prove them.
God (however you want to define that) has no proof. He's just an over-hyped comic book hero. If you think yours exists, then I'll just have to say that mine is more powerful than your plus 1, so yours can never be as powerful as mine.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:09 am

OK. Let's have this debate. But since I'm short on time and patience, I'll be the adjudicator, and set the rules.

As with formal debates there will be two teams of three: Three For, three Against. There will be three rounds. The audience decides the winner of the round, and overall winner, by applause.

The rounds are; Opening Argument, Supporting Argument, and Final Word.

Each participant has ONE WORD, PER ROUND (because I'm impatient). Choose your words and fellows wisely. The respondents of each side should identify themselves in their response as FOR or AGAINST. I will disqualify any non-compliant post.

The debate topic is; "Does God Exist?"

Let the debate begin!
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby salomed » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:35 am

Major Malfunction wrote:OK. Let's have this debate. But since I'm short on time and patience, I'll be the adjudicator, and set the rules.

As with formal debates there will be two teams of three: Three For, three Against. There will be three rounds. The audience decides the winner of the round, and overall winner, by applause.

The rounds are; Opening Argument, Supporting Argument, and Final Word.

Each participant has ONE WORD, PER ROUND (because I'm impatient). Choose your words and fellows wisely. The respondents of each side should identify themselves in their response as FOR or AGAINST. I will disqualify any non-compliant post.

The debate topic is; "Does God Exist?"

Let the debate begin!



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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:48 am

Disqualified, etc.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:08 am

Deleted post.
Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:12 am

Disqualified.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:15 am

Major Malfunction wrote:Each participant has ONE WORD, PER ROUND (because I'm impatient).
Phew! That's harsh but what a fantastic time saving concept!

Major Malfunction wrote:The audience decides the winner of the round, and overall winner, by applause
That's not exactly fair as you and I are in Aussieland and can hear each other. The Americans will need to acquire a very stong version of clap for us to notice.

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Opening Round "For" Team member 1

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:23 am

"Does God Exist?" / One Word Debate Finals

Opening Round
Team Member 1 : Mr Temple-Ellard. For the "Against"

Submission = "Plausibility"

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:57 am

This argument has been going for thousands of years. Surely, we can wait a day, or two, for the Final Word?

Thank you, Matt. Over to your Opening Argument, Fors.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Monster » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:06 pm

Does god exist?

No.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:34 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:This argument has been going for thousands of years. Surely, we can wait a day, or two, for the Final Word?

Thank you, Matt. Over to your Opening Argument, Fors.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Chachacha » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:06 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:Each participant has ONE WORD, PER ROUND (because I'm impatient). Choose your words and fellows wisely. The respondents of each side should identify themselves in their response as FOR or AGAINST. I will disqualify any non-compliant post.


Homey don't play that.

Major Malfunction wrote:The debate topic is; "Does God Exist?"



Yes and no.

God's existence or non-existence is in our mind:
God exists in the minds of those who think God exists.
God does not exist in the minds of those who think God does not exist.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby moth1ne » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:22 pm

:clapping: What a riveting debate...
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:04 pm

No takers For? I suppose Against wins by default.

There. The argument is settled.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby mapache 606 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:53 pm

moth1ne wrote:
mapache 606 wrote:
moth1ne wrote:


Atheists are people that do not have a belief in any god. So yes, children are born atheists. They do not understand the concept of religion therefor they do not follow a religious dogma. Although you are correct, children will be impressed upon by their cultural upbringing but neutrality is not the term I would use, I would use atheist. The point I was trying to make is that children are inquisitive in nature and asking questions about existence is an application of the scientific method and when a religious answer is given such as, "God has always existed." That does not answer the question, it just circles around it. It is easier to answer children with "God did it" then to answer with "I don't know". Maybe it is not an atheist question, but it is a question that could sway someone from the assumption that God exists because the bible says he exists, which is circular reasoning.

Here is a definition of atheist.
a·the·ist
   [ey-thee-ist]
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

To say a child is an atheist because he has no belief is misleading. A child cannot deny or disbelieve something he is not aware of or doesn't understand. An atheist has a belief that God does not exist. It is a choice. From what I have seen on the forum most here have rejected the idea of God presented by organized religion and from the Bible, Qur'an or any of the gods conjured up in the minds of ignorant, superstitious people. When someone says they don't believe in God here I say of course why would you. You are always referring back to the God you were raised with or influenced by in your culture. Science has won the war on superstitious religions.


Scientist believe that the universe and life came from the big bang, but I wouldn't ask what caused the big bang because it is perpetuated in ignorance.


Well if we didn't ask the question, "What caused the big bang?" then we would never know and I do believe science is currently trying to discover that. As far off as they may be from that discovery, I don't believe they will just stop searching for the truth. The big bang is currently the most sound theory to explain the formation of the universe but that is not to say that new theories will not be spun up and challenge it. It is the method of science.


To ask what caused the big bang would be like asking who created God. If you think God does not exist or is not plausible then why ask the question. Man has been studying the stars for a few years and yet he is confident the newest theory is right? There are so many problems with the big bang it isn't funny. My disappointment in Christians like Craig is that that they are using the BB as if it is the starting point of God's creation. I see absolutely no difference in the ignorance of believing in a 6 day creation story and the big bang theory.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:59 pm

The difference, mapache, is empirical evidence.

There is a pile of empirical evidence for an expanding universe, and an origin in the form of a cataclysmic event. There is no such evidence for an origin by deity.

There are lots of questions, and cosmologists are working to try to get data that will deliver answers. However, science has never guaranteed all the answers, and sometimes we have to accept that we do not know. That is not an excuse for taking the lazy way out and saying "Goddidit."

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:13 am

Major Malfunction wrote:No takers For? I suppose Against wins by default.

There. The argument is settled.

Take a look at post #25. I feel . . . I feel . . . Oh, Hell, I don't really feel anything. I was only playing Devil's advocate (har) so you could have your little debate.

It's too bad. I hadn't hauled out the heavy guns yet.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby mapache 606 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:50 am

Atheists are people that do not have a belief in any god. So yes, children are born atheists. They do not understand the concept of religion therefor they do not follow a religious dogma. Although you are correct, children will be impressed upon by their cultural upbringing but neutrality is not the term I would use, I would use atheist. The point I was trying to make is that children are inquisitive in nature and asking questions about existence is an application of the scientific method and when a religious answer is given such as, "God has always existed." That does not answer the question, it just circles around it. It is easier to answer children with "God did it" then to answer with "I don't know". Maybe it is not an atheist question, but it is a question that could sway someone from the assumption that God exists because the bible says he exists, which is circular reasoning.

Here is a definition of atheist.
a·the·ist
   [ey-thee-ist]
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

To say a child is an atheist because he has no belief is misleading. A child cannot deny or disbelieve something he is not aware of or doesn't understand. An atheist has a belief that God does not exist. It is a choice. From what I have seen on the forum most here have rejected the idea of God presented by organized religion and from the Bible, Qur'an or any of the gods conjured up in the minds of ignorant, superstitious people. When someone says they don't believe in God here I say of course why would you. You are always referring back to the God you were raised with or influenced by in your culture. Science has won the war on superstitious religions.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Bunyip » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:19 am

I suggests anyone seriously interested in the topic take the time to read/ listen to the famous Bertrand Russell- Frederick C Copleton SJ debate (1948)

TRANSCRIPT:

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p20.htm.


The recording

http://www.philvaz.com/RussellCoplestonDebate.mp3
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:28 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:No takers For? I suppose Against wins by default.

There. The argument is settled.


Fantastic! What do I win? Don't tell me...two tickets to see Rose Tattoo and a slap up feed at the local RSL's buffett? No? A night at the Harold Park dog races with your good self and your cheese & kisses? No? Don't tell me.... An all expenses paid trip to Adelaide on a bus visiting the "bodies in acid vats" and Truro murder sites? No? Don't tell me... The reunion gig of The Ramrods with their original manager Paul Keating? No? I get to see the shiny tree stump where Sir Robert Helpman met his special friends at night? No? A musical based on the life of Frank Thring at the Wagga Wagga Bowling club? No? .....

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby moth1ne » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:45 pm

mapache 606 wrote:Atheists are people that do not have a belief in any god. So yes, children are born atheists. They do not understand the concept of religion therefor they do not follow a religious dogma. Although you are correct, children will be impressed upon by their cultural upbringing but neutrality is not the term I would use, I would use atheist. The point I was trying to make is that children are inquisitive in nature and asking questions about existence is an application of the scientific method and when a religious answer is given such as, "God has always existed." That does not answer the question, it just circles around it. It is easier to answer children with "God did it" then to answer with "I don't know". Maybe it is not an atheist question, but it is a question that could sway someone from the assumption that God exists because the bible says he exists, which is circular reasoning.

Here is a definition of atheist.
a·the·ist
   [ey-thee-ist]
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

To say a child is an atheist because he has no belief is misleading. A child cannot deny or disbelieve something he is not aware of or doesn't understand. An atheist has a belief that God does not exist. It is a choice. From what I have seen on the forum most here have rejected the idea of God presented by organized religion and from the Bible, Qur'an or any of the gods conjured up in the minds of ignorant, superstitious people. When someone says they don't believe in God here I say of course why would you. You are always referring back to the God you were raised with or influenced by in your culture. Science has won the war on superstitious religions.

Not having a belief and choosing to not believe are two different things. Atheists do not have a belief therefor, they do not "have a belief that god does not exist". Children do not have the concept of God or a creator until it is instilled into them by some religious authority. If a child is never exposed to the concept of a God then that child will be raised as an atheist. I think children are born atheists meaning they don't have a belief, but can be influenced into making a decision based on the developed concept of God.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Chachacha » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:26 pm

Prior to the word being hijacked by monotheists, "atheist" meant "without gods".

Since monotheists are without gods, they're atheists.

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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:34 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:No takers For? I suppose Against wins by default.

There. The argument is settled.


Fantastic! What do I win? Don't tell me...two tickets to see Rose Tattoo and a slap up feed at the local RSL's buffett? No? A night at the Harold Park dog races with your good self and your cheese & kisses? No? Don't tell me.... An all expenses paid trip to Adelaide on a bus visiting the "bodies in acid vats" and Truro murder sites? No? Don't tell me... The reunion gig of The Ramrods with their original manager Paul Keating? No? I get to see the shiny tree stump where Sir Robert Helpman met his special friends at night? No? A musical based on the life of Frank Thring at the Wagga Wagga Bowling club? No? .....

You won, but not fairly. What did you bribe him with? Beer? Hookers? Immunity from tax audit? Hmmph! [/soreloserwhinging]
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby mapache 606 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:54 pm

moth1ne wrote:
mapache 606 wrote:
Here is a definition of atheist.
a·the·ist
   [ey-thee-ist]
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

To say a child is an atheist because he has no belief is misleading. A child cannot deny or disbelieve something he is not aware of or doesn't understand. An atheist has a belief that God does not exist. It is a choice. From what I have seen on the forum most here have rejected the idea of God presented by organized religion and from the Bible, Qur'an or any of the gods conjured up in the minds of ignorant, superstitious people. When someone says they don't believe in God here I say of course why would you. You are always referring back to the God you were raised with or influenced by in your culture. Science has won the war on superstitious religions.

Not having a belief and choosing to not believe are two different things. Atheists do not have a belief therefor, they do not "have a belief that god does not exist". Children do not have the concept of God or a creator until it is instilled into them by some religious authority. If a child is never exposed to the concept of a God then that child will be raised as an atheist. I think children are born atheists meaning they don't have a belief, but can be influenced into making a decision based on the developed concept of God.


I gave you one definition of atheist and here is another:
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[9][10]

So if you are saying that having no belief is atheism then when I ask you if you believe in God you can't say "no I don't believe in God" because that would be a belief, right? I don't accept the idea that a child will not conceive of a God of some sort if left alone to think for himself. I have often wondered about this idea. I think there is something in our nature that draws us to that posistion if not negatively acted upon. Primitive man is an example.
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Major Malfunction » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:02 pm

Do you collect stamps?
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Re: "Does god exist" debate

Postby Chachacha » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:25 pm

mapache 606 wrote:
I gave you one definition of atheist and here is another:
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[9][10]

So if you are saying that having no belief is atheism then when I ask you if you believe in God you can't say "no I don't believe in God" because that would be a belief, right? I don't accept the idea that a child will not conceive of a God of some sort if left alone to think for himself. I have often wondered about this idea. I think there is something in our nature that draws us to that posistion if not negatively acted upon. Primitive man is an example.



You are free to choose a definition of "atheist" which suits you. I prefer the original definition, "without gods", which I interpret as "god-free". Children are god-free until they are indoctrinated into a belief in gods.

You are free to not accept it, but gods were not created by children, gods were created by adults. Children would not make up Santa Claus if adults didn't instill a belief in him; nor would they make up god(s).


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