Time to take a crack at Buddhism

[Abdul Alhazred]

OK folks.

Time to take a little break from denouncing the "Abrahamic" faiths and take a crack at  Buddhism.

The Truth About Tibetan Buddhism
Brendan O'Neill in Reason

Sample:

...

Or consider the answer given by one of Frank J. Korom’s students at Boston University when he asked her why she was wearing a Tibetan Buddhist necklace. “It keeps me healthy and happy,” she said, reducing Tibetan Buddhism, as so many Dalai Lama-loving undergrads do, to the religious equivalent of knocking back a vitamin pill.

The reality couldn’t be more different. The first devout Buddhists I encountered looked neither healthy nor happy. They were walking from their villages in southern Tibet to Jokhang Temple in Lhasa, Tibetan Buddhism’s holiest site, and the journey had taken them nearly three months. Which isn’t surprising considering that with every third or fourth step they took, they got down on their knees and then fully prostrated themselves on the ground, lying flat on their bellies and burying their faces in the dirt, before getting back up, taking a few more steps, and doing the painful prostration thing again.

...

[vanderpoel]

OK folks.

Time to take a little break from denouncing the "Abrahamic" faiths and take a crack at  Buddhism.

The Truth About Tibetan Buddhism
Brendan O'Neill in Reason

Sample:

...

Or consider the answer given by one of Frank J. Korom’s students at Boston University when he asked her why she was wearing a Tibetan Buddhist necklace. “It keeps me healthy and happy,” she said, reducing Tibetan Buddhism, as so many Dalai Lama-loving undergrads do, to the religious equivalent of knocking back a vitamin pill.

The reality couldn’t be more different. The first devout Buddhists I encountered looked neither healthy nor happy. They were walking from their villages in southern Tibet to Jokhang Temple in Lhasa, Tibetan Buddhism’s holiest site, and the journey had taken them nearly three months. Which isn’t surprising considering that with every third or fourth step they took, they got down on their knees and then fully prostrated themselves on the ground, lying flat on their bellies and burying their faces in the dirt, before getting back up, taking a few more steps, and doing the painful prostration thing again.

...

Just like boot camp.

[OlegTheBatty]

that with every third or fourth step they took, they got down on their knees and then fully prostrated themselves on the ground, lying flat on their bellies and burying their faces in the dirt, before getting back up, taking a few more steps, and doing the painful prostration thing again.

...

. . . sounds like going home after a party back in the college days . . . the only Bhudda I recall from that time is the porcelain one.

[Chachacha]

that with every third or fourth step they took, they got down on their knees and then fully prostrated themselves on the ground, lying flat on their bellies and burying their faces in the dirt, before getting back up, taking a few more steps, and doing the painful prostration thing again.

...

. . . sounds like going home after a party back in the college days . . . the only Bhudda I recall from that time is the porcelain one.

Although lovely, large porcelain Bhuddas on the floors of entryways and hallways are responsible for many disasters when combined with alcohol ... maybe that's why Buddhists don't drink.

[Major Malfunction]

I believe Oleg was referring to the 'Technicolour Aum'.

[Chachacha]

I believe Oleg was referring to the 'Technicolour Aum'.

OH!  Driving the porcelain bus!  Thanks, Major.     It appears my personal experience clouded my perception.  Did you know those cross-legged porcelain Buddhas can stick their leg out to trip you?

[Phlegmak]

OK folks.

Time to take a little break from denouncing the "Abrahamic" faiths and take a crack at  Buddhism.

The Truth About Tibetan Buddhism
Brendan O'Neill in Reason

Sample:

I took the time to read the whole article. 'Twas good.  Thanks for sharing.

[mater deum]

Many Buddhist monks and nuns are living in a way that the Buddha specifically warned them not to do.  (Selling "Buddhist"  ceremonies, blessings, funeral services, taking cash for services, selling things like retreats or vegetarian cooking classes, etc.)

He made the rules-  the modern Buddhists ignore them.

There are 4 Noble Truths,  the 5 and 8 and 10 Precepts.... and there are hundreds of rules for the monks in  monastic life and about double that for the nuns.

[mater deum]

Lost my post.

My 'lost' post was regarding the misogyny and anti-gay sentiment in Buddhism.

Misogynistic?  Yup.
Anti-gay?  Don't really know whet the Buddha actuallly stated on that matter.

In Theravadan Buddhism- only a monk can become enlightened and reach paranirbanna. (Nirvana.)

[vanderpoel]

Lost my post.

My 'lost' post was regarding the misogyny and anti-gay sentiment in Buddhism.

Misogynistic?  Yup.
Anti-gay?  Don't really know whet the Buddha actuallly stated on that matter.

In Theravadan Buddhism- only a monk can become enlightened and reach paranirbanna. (Nirvana.)

Well yeah, if a woman monk was to become enlightened she would make them take off all those silly dresses.

[fromthehills]

I know many so-called Tibetan Buddhists. They can drink, if they want, and aren't vegetarians, necessarily. My brother-in-law, and his wife, practice Tibetan Buddhism. I think the whole thing is ludicrous, and I joke about it being a rich persons religion, because you have to have time and money to participate in it, at all. I'm speaking for the Americans in the whole thing. Oddly enough, no one in the thing seems more enlightened, if anything, they seem to be more holier than thou, which is annoying. Most Westerners end up here from Boulder.

I may have related this, but if not here it is. It's a sex gig to be the spiritual leader in this nonsense. It's well known, in my community, that the leaders get to fool around with the young, aspiring Buddha seeking gals. So essentially, it's just like any freakshow cult. I could write pages of anecdotal happenings in the Americanized Tibetan Buddhist community. And, yea, Richard Gere ends up here for the Buddhist stuff. Haven't seen the Dalia Lama yet, but his #2 is here quite a bit.

[vanderpoel]

Sex gigs are hard work.

[Lance Kennedy]

Gotta say that if you walk for 3 months, and prostrate yourself every third step, you gonna get super fit.   No wonder them monks is so thin!

[fromthehills]

Also, I think it's just the peasant class that does the bizarre pilgrimage ritual, the monk class, before exiled, just had to meditate and feed off of the peasant class's labor, not much different than the Vatican. Now the monk class feeds off of Hollywood, and anybody else that is suckered into sending money by the Free Tibet campaign, or paying for classes and retreats.

Another bizarre ritual Tibetan Buddhist westerners do, and I'm pissed about is "feeding the spirits". Hundreds of dollars of food is prepared, fine food, nobody eats it, then it's put out into the woods, where my dogs find it and keep me up all night with bowel issues. Or the bears get into it, and lose their fear of people. Never crosses their mind that real people might need that food more than the spirits do.

[Lance Kennedy]

Of course, Tibetan Buddhism is not very close to the original philosophy.   It is, I am led to believe, heavily influenced by the animist/shamanist beliefs that prevailed before Buddhism came to Tibet.   My source tells me that Sri Lankan Buddhism is closest to the original, which was more a philosophy of personal development than a full blown religion.
http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/sects/tibetan.htm

[fromthehills]

Interesting link. I saw one school, they call it, that does prohibit alcohol, meat, and sex. Doesn't sound like the fun one, to me.

I read in one of my wife's books, that once Tibetans controlled a large portion of China. The Chinese finally revolted primarily due to the tantric  sex practices, apparently the Chinese were quite a bit more modest in matters of copulation.

[fromthehills]

Something interesting about Buddhism, is that it is based in eastern thought, most of which westerners can't really wrap their heads around. Westerners tend toward looking at it with the dogmatic view, a very linear view. " If I get in my hour of meditation a day, treat some one nice, and present myself as an enlightened person, then I will, one day be enlightened" It's work. The Tibetan monks, say " Chill, Dude, be happy with what you got, and quit worrying so much, {!#%@} happens, and {!#%@} moves on, {!#%@} it" Or something to that effect. I can actually get behind that, but I don't think I have to take any of the rest in account. Then, on the other hand, a guy without any worries, in the moment, will probably have bigger worries later.

I've also seen the effects on people, first hand, that try the Buddhist approach, too diligently. It would be cool to see a study on this. There is something, that I can't explain, that happens. Many folks around here end up not playing with the same deck of cards that most of us do. There's some delusion going on, well, almost like a dementia. Now I can't speak to it being the meditation, or months of solitary retreats, or that, perhaps, it attracts people with this disposition. I did read a study of inmates that were subjected to solitary confinement did tend toward delusion, to the point where their brain patterns were altered drastically.

Obviously speculation, I'm just wondering.

[OlegTheBatty]

Something interesting about Buddhism, is that it is based in eastern thought, most of which westerners can't really wrap their heads around. Westerners tend toward looking at it with the dogmatic view, a very linear view. " If I get in my hour of meditation a day, treat some one nice, and present myself as an enlightened person, then I will, one day be enlightened" It's work. The Tibetan monks, say " Chill, Dude, be happy with what you got, and quit worrying so much, {!#%@} happens, and {!#%@} moves on, {!#%@} it" Or something to that effect. I can actually get behind that, but I don't think I have to take any of the rest in account. Then, on the other hand, a guy without any worries, in the moment, will probably have bigger worries later.

I've also seen the effects on people, first hand, that try the Buddhist approach, too diligently. It would be cool to see a study on this. There is something, that I can't explain, that happens. Many folks around here end up not playing with the same deck of cards that most of us do. There's some delusion going on, well, almost like a dementia. Now I can't speak to it being the meditation, or months of solitary retreats, or that, perhaps, it attracts people with this disposition. I did read a study of inmates that were subjected to solitary confinement did tend toward delusion, to the point where their brain patterns were altered drastically.

Obviously speculation, I'm just wondering.

It seems somewhat like the North American Natives fasting for days and going off on their own until they experience the hallucinations/dreams that they use to identify their personal spirit animal.
Mistaking their own biological misfunction as signifying something mystical/spiritual. It makes one wonder just how much religiosity is nothing more than a bad case of gas.

[fromthehills]

Well, yea, perceiving the hallucination as real, can explain a lot. Or in cases of large groups, maybe it's the contact high.

But, what seems to be a permanent state?

[fromthehills]

Another point of contention I have with the local Buddhists is that the county used to spray for mosquitoes, but they complained because it was taking lives. So the mosquitoes are so thick for a couple months a year, that they can eat you whole, if you stand still too long.

[OlegTheBatty]

Well, yea, perceiving the hallucination as real, can explain a lot. Or in cases of large groups, maybe it's the contact high.

But, what seems to be a permanent state?

I don't know. Freedom from anxiety? Acceptance of yourself and the world around you (as a gestalt, not as two separate things)?

It may be that we are atheists partly because we already have the (more or less) permanent state that the religious are striving for.

In my youth, living on Vancouver Island, I had a neighbor who was very much into Zen Bhuddism, and he was as much an atheist as I am. The Tibetan Bhuddists apparently are not.

[OlegTheBatty]

Another point of contention I have with the local Buddhists is that the county used to spray for mosquitoes, but they complained because it was taking lives. So the mosquitoes are so thick for a couple months a year, that they can eat you whole, if you stand still too long.

A Hindu guy I know was supportive of our mosquito spraying program - he said he would rather practice an imperfect religion than put up with the damn things.

[fromthehills]

I don't know. Freedom from anxiety? Acceptance of yourself and the world around you (as a gestalt, not as two separate things)?

The sense of oneness is quite inviting, I happened to really see what that meant by easier means, accidentally, a few times, maybe several, but those terms are ambiguous.

It may be that we are atheists partly because we already have the (more or less) permanent state that the religious are striving for.

I've often thought of this. I do think to be atheist, genuinely, requires a level of acceptance, self-awareness, and the ability to be comfortable with that awareness. When the only one that you can blame, and the only one that can forgive you for being flawed, is yourself. When you see the great expanse of everything, and understand that it's just amazing to be here to wonder at that expanse, the ability to wonder at all, it's thrilling, well beyond the scope of religion, as I see it.

In my youth, living on Vancouver Island, I had a neighbor who was very much into Zen Bhuddism, and he was as much an atheist as I am. The Tibetan Bhuddists apparently are not

.


That's how I understand it, too. There's a Zen Center here, too. I have only met one person involved there, and she seemed to be a go getter, very down to Earth, and pleasant. My friend, the local fire chief, says they are great folks to work with, and very practical. The center is located among pinion trees, on a steep slope, and out of the fire district, he works with them on mitigation, and is training a couple of them for small scale fire fighting, and evacuation.

[ifort]

I've also seen the effects on people, first hand, that try the Buddhist approach, too diligently. It would be cool to see a study on this. There is something, that I can't explain, that happens. Many folks around here end up not playing with the same deck of cards that most of us do. There's some delusion going on, well, almost like a dementia. Now I can't speak to it being the meditation, or months of solitary retreats, or that, perhaps, it attracts people with this disposition. I did read a study of inmates that were subjected to solitary confinement did tend toward delusion, to the point where their brain patterns were altered drastically.

It has been noted on other kinds of meditation (primarily TM(TM)) that it causes all kinds of hallucination and delusion. It also helps if you're fed nonsense during such periods of mental vulnerability.

As for Zen, it's geeky, in a way. I can only recall one TV celebrity who is a Zen Buddhist monk. This guy. I'm not sure how his love of blowing stuff up fits, though, but he sure likes 'to reach out and touch someone'.

[fromthehills]

I've also seen the effects on people, first hand, that try the Buddhist approach, too diligently. It would be cool to see a study on this. There is something, that I can't explain, that happens. Many folks around here end up not playing with the same deck of cards that most of us do. There's some delusion going on, well, almost like a dementia. Now I can't speak to it being the meditation, or months of solitary retreats, or that, perhaps, it attracts people with this disposition. I did read a study of inmates that were subjected to solitary confinement did tend toward delusion, to the point where their brain patterns were altered drastically.

It has been noted on other kinds of meditation (primarily TM(TM)) that it causes all kinds of hallucination and delusion. It also helps if you're fed nonsense during such periods of mental vulnerability.

As for Zen, it's geeky, in a way. I can only recall one TV celebrity who is a Zen Buddhist monk. This guy. I'm not sure how his love of blowing stuff up fits, though, but he sure likes 'to reach out and touch someone'.

Well, there you go. Buddhism can be used as a positive. Trust me, I'm anti-war, especially as it is done today, and I have an aversion to aggressors in history. I do believe in self-defense, though, and I think the show Future Weapons, once you get through the BS, is great. I am intrigued with all the new weapons technology, and the old.

It leads me to assume, that Zen Buddhism is a technique, or practice, that serves to calm the mind, rather than a dogma. Which is completely different than the Western, Tibetan Buddhism I reject wholeheartedly.

I don't practice any of it, but when I shoot firearms, bows, throw an axe, or even use a circular saw, I do what I call zeroing out. Don't know how to say much more than that, but it keeps things accurate.

[vanderpoel]

Maybe you were just spacing out while you were zeroing in on nirvana?

[Brian Ganek]

Why does the left want to crack the world's great religions?  I don't want to see Buddhism fail, I respect Buddhists, I respect all religions.

I have questions about Islam and Sharia, but I have faith, we'll come to an understanding, one way or the other.

[Phlegmak]

Why does the left want to crack the world's great religions?  I don't want to see Buddhism fail, I respect Buddhists, I respect all religions.

I have questions about Islam and Sharia, but I have faith, we'll come to an understanding, one way or the other.

It seems like you (and Conservapedia) have invented a new religion where "the left" is your new Satan.  Whatever "the left" is is entirely subjective.

[Brian Ganek]

[T]he left" is your new Satan.  Whatever "the left" is is entirely subjective.

You almost get it.

[fromthehills]

Maybe you were just spacing out while you were zeroing in on nirvana?

spacing out does kind of come close to what I mean.

Next up is not addressed to you, Van.

I find it funny, and interesting that I might be considered Left, by those that are Rightwing fanatical. Supposedly, I would represent all the Right stands for, but yet, ironically, I'm Left, because I tend towards supporting my fellow Americans, I tend to want to stick with my country in her time of need, rather than blame the Liberals for everything and walk away. I believe that a group of greedy, free market bastards stole money from people, us, knowing that we trusted them to do the right thing. We gave them the reins, and they not only wrecked, they won money off of a bet that they would wreck. They {!#%@} us in the ass, then laughed as they walked out the door. These are the type of {!#%@} that the Right supports. Which is a great mystery to me. They support spreading lies, they support stealing, they support building inferior products to make a dollar, they support keeping people ignorant. I don't understand how being a self-sufficient, law-abiding, otherwise good American turned into a bunch of ranting freaks that call upon God to justify war, lying, stealing, swindling, and hypocrisy.

The Right lost all respect from me, just as the Left has. I'd much rather see a masturbating monkey in the white house than the {!#%@} clowns that we always see. At least things would get weird, maybe then we'd see some change. At least, maybe, people would see that you can't {!#%@} your neighbor without consequences.

[Lance Kennedy]

Hills

You wouldn't care to let loose a few inhibitions and let us know what you really think, would you?

Personally, being non American, I would like to see a little more international thinking.   The world is no longer a series of isolated communities.   We are all part of the one thing.  

Instead of a comment from Hills (no offense meant) about actions to benefit the people of the USA, I would love to see people saying what should be done to help the world as a whole.

Frankly, I do not give a tinker's damn whether Obama is right or left wing.  Or whether the people of Illinois receive financial subsidies or not.   I do care, though, about whether the USA decides to invade another country or not.   The plan is to get out of Iraq.   Fine.  I agree.   Get out of Afghanistan while you are at it.  Then how about keeping your soldiers at home.  The only time you can justify American military forces in someone else's nation is when they are invited!

[ruben lopez]

Lance Kennedy wrote:

Instead of a comment from Hills (no offense meant) about actions to benefit the people of the USA, I would love to see people saying what should be done to help the world as a whole.

Dissolve borders. Make patriotism a bad thing. Stress the fact that we are all alike. Get rid of religion. Get rid of religion. Get rid or religion.

BTW, your first sentence of your above post that was directed at fromthehills was funny as hell.

[landrew]

Religion is religion, and people are people.

Anyone can commit a category error by assuming that all pain is gain, so don't blame the religion. I'm sure there are variations of Buddhism that are practiced much more sanely.

That aside, I prefer the following definitions:

Spirituality: what you believe.
Religion: what you are told to believe.

[vanderpoel]

My, my, we are sure fond of being world citizens today it seems.
I'm just as sure that is somewhat Utopian. While we lament our leaders and our propensity to tell the world how to live, we better get a dose of reality about how the rest of the world really lives. Mostly in fear and mostly abused.

While I recognize that some Western states are livable, most countries curtail the freedom and other rights of their citizens, just think of Russia, China, Nigeria, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea, should I go on?

Whereas America is not innocent when it comes to bribing, it is still frowned upon and it goes against our American sensibilities. That is not the case in other countries where the rule is bribery, theft and dictatorship at the top and black markets on the bottom.

The last thing I want to be is a citizen of that world.
We like to think that world citizenry is the answer but if we look around our own American cities we find that people form the same clusters based on ethnic differences and nationalities in this country as they do in their countries of origin.

New York is a perfect example of that herding instinct. So is the Chinatown where I live here in Honolulu. When I have my morning coffee in the local Maunakea marketplace, a large outside terrace, I'm surrounded by groups of Chinese, Laotians, Cambodians, Vietnamese, Samoans, Filipinos and Hawaiians.

But none of these groups mingle. They sit with each other strictly according to nationality, so you get a good dose of prejudice with your coffee and the realization that such clustering is merely an innate behavior, much ruled by scent and instinct rather then by reason.

I scoff at the notion that we must lower our defenses and open our borders.
The idea that all human life is equally valuable comes from modeling it after our own image. I think most people in this world aspire to do good as evidenced by the way they treat their children, but it's not true that the whole world is nice and good just like we imagine ourselves to be.

It's what separates us from the psychopaths out there.
Not many of us have the stomach to treat a person as an enemy combatant, preferring to see the good in people. Fortunately we don't have to. We have hawks in our military whose job it is to provide a realistic picture of the threats out there.

No need to piss on the parades of those who see the world as if they were Mahatma Gandhi, no need to worry the children. These hawks are the keepers of the flame.
Including those that keep hope alive. Don't worry about taking cracks at Buddhism.
Take a crack at realism.

Actually, don't even take a crack at that, that's what snipers are for.
But you did not hear it from me.

[fromthehills]

I know, Lance, not very Buddhist of me.

I'm not for our wars, I've been against these wars from the beginning. I would have been in favor of heading an international police action to capture terrorist leaders. We had the world on our side after 9 11, we would have had international help in bringing all parties responsible in. Instead we decided to go on a bombing spree, then focus on an entirely unrelated country. It's BS. I stood, mouth agape, when we were told that we were invading Iraq.

Here's what I think, Lance. We can't be much good to the world community if we don't help ourselves. A small scale analogy would be me trying to serve my own community, by however, providing jobs, opening a food bank, anything, while I'm stumbling around drunk with crap in my trousers. America's got a serious hangover right now, and it seems like we're just trying the hair of the dog, rather than sobering up and cleaning up the mess.

[landrew]

I know, Lance, not very Buddhist of me.

I'm not for our wars, I've been against these wars from the beginning. I would have been in favor of heading an international police action to capture terrorist leaders. We had the world on our side after 9 11, we would have had international help in bringing all parties responsible in. Instead we decided to go on a bombing spree, then focus on an entirely unrelated country. It's BS. I stood, mouth agape, when we were told that we were invading Iraq.

Here's what I think, Lance. We can't be much good to the world community if we don't help ourselves. A small scale analogy would be me trying to serve my own community, by however, providing jobs, opening a food bank, anything, while I'm stumbling around drunk with crap in my trousers. America's got a serious hangover right now, and it seems like we're just trying the hair of the dog, rather than sobering up and cleaning up the mess.

There was a time, it seemed like a new age of accountability was emerging. It was the sixties, and journalists were asking questions about the Kennedy assassination, investigative journalists were uncovering atrocities in Vietnam, and investigative journalism was beginning to introduce a new standard of public accountability that seemed to be emerging.

All that seems to have been retracted now; the media is nearly all owned and muzzled by powerful interests, investigative journalism is all but dead, and massive fraud schemes are being foisted on the public in ever-increasing magnitude.

I wonder just how much abuse the populace can take before they take action. But its hard to imagine the masses awakening from their stupor.  Maybe the choice for people is take action or take drugs.

[vanderpoel]

; the media is nearly all owned and muzzled by powerful interests, investigative journalism is all but dead, and massive fraud schemes are being foisted on the public in ever-increasing magnitude.

And yet here we are unmuzzled by powerful interests other than our own, investigating the claims of others. How is it that we now are imbedded with the military like never before. How is it that we now have every opinion in the world on YouTube and every scientific fact on Wikipedia. How is it then that we know so much about all these massive fraud schemes are being foisted on the public?

I wonder just how much abuse the populace can take before they take action. But its hard to imagine the masses awakening from their stupor.

The movie Network was an attempt to answer that on TV but in real life that struggle goes on daily for many third world countries and their revolutionaries.

Maybe the choice for people is take action or take drugs.

C'mon Landrew, there are ways to do both.

[Lance Kennedy]

Don't get me wrong, guys.  I think the world is already on the right path.

If you look at our respective origins a few hundred years ago, we see a pattern where social justice was an aspiration, not a reality.  In America, you had slavery.   In Britain, a dreadful class system.  In Russia, serfdom.  and so on.

Today, things are much better.   I accept that corruption is rife in many nations, and many countries still have a long way to go.

I am not advocating the dismantling of borders.   Just a change in point of view about how we treat our neighbours.   I appreciate Hills comments on America's wars.   I have always thought he was smart, and this confirms it.

Instead of international hostility, why not use aid as a tool to gaining our objectives elsewhere?   For example: Pakistan is now important to America in the war against terrorists.   Pakistan is also in the throes of a dreadful flood, causing enormous loss of life and immense human hardship.  The worst affected area happens to be in a terrorist stronghold, and a place where Americans are hated.

So why not spend a few of those billions that otherwise would go on bombs, to get aid and medical care to the suffering Pakistanis.   Win their hearts with kindness.  That would put a major crimp in Al Qaeda.   If the people love America, support for terrorism will evaporate.  

If we change our approach from using military force to drive reluctant peoples to doing what we want, to using aid to demonstrate how it should be done, so that people will aspire to our way of life, then we can be effective in changing the world in a positive way.

Proper aid requires that we send our own people to work in other countries.   We all know that simply giving money to third world governments leads to large Swiss bank accounts, and nothing for the people in need.   European and American doctors, nurses, teachers, engineers etc., working alongside locals creates the right kind of relationship.

Military intervention leads to hostility, resentment, and the urge to retaliate.   Aid leads to a desire for friendship and cooperation.  Which is better?

That said, I still believe that global development is going the right way.  Hopefully, in another 100 years or so, hunger and poverty (at least by today's standards) will no longer exist.   There is no such thing as Utopia, but we can reduce misery.  This goal can be achieved with the right spirit.

[landrew]

Maybe the choice for people is take action or take drugs.

C'mon Landrew, there are ways to do both.

I'd swear I'd already posted this once, but here goes again:

Maybe when there's no money left to buy drugs, people will have no choice but to take action.

[Brian Ganek]

It's wrong to attack religion, if it's not in self defense.

Raise your children to love God and love America.