The Demon Haunted World by Sagan

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Lausten
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Re: The Demon Haunted World by Sagan

Postby Lausten » Sat May 23, 2015 11:36 pm

Thanx Jo
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Re: The Demon Haunted World by Sagan

Postby Lausten » Mon May 25, 2015 9:48 pm

gorgeous wrote:7--Science Makes up Stories to Explain Our Origins------ Now, of course, we have science to explain our origins.

You know what its latest version of this story is? In the beginning, there were giant membranes. These membranes touched each other, triggering something called the “Big Bang”. Sure.

Okay, I realize this is pretty much pointless, but it's killing me. The question is, really? Do you really believe that? That scientists "make up stories"? Can you explain how making up a story like "Lord of the Rings" where there are dragons and wizards that never existed, that came completely out of one man's head (which of course was a product of his culture and stories that came before, etc. etc., but, you know) and a theory that was developed over decades, that arose from discovery after discovery and confirmed data involving both physical and mathematical evidence, that only has credibility because hundreds of people invested their lives in researching minute details and had the support and confirmation of thousands more, can you explain how those two things are the same? How you can say both are "made up"?
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Re: The Demon Haunted World by Sagan

Postby Gord » Tue May 26, 2015 12:30 am

Lausten wrote:Can you explain how making up a story like "Lord of the Rings" where there are dragons and wizards that never existed, that came completely out of one man's head (which of course was a product of his culture and stories that came before, etc. etc., but, you know) and a theory that was developed over decades, that arose from discovery after discovery and confirmed data involving both physical and mathematical evidence, that only has credibility because hundreds of people invested their lives in researching minute details and had the support and confirmation of thousands more, can you explain how those two things are the same?

Please pick a different story. :?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: The Demon Haunted World by Sagan

Postby Lausten » Tue May 26, 2015 2:14 am

Gord wrote:Please pick a different story. :?

Well you know it's not going to be Game of Thrones. How about Peter Pan?
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Re: The Demon Haunted World by Sagan

Postby gorgeous » Tue May 26, 2015 9:44 pm

wizards may have existed and might still now.....do some scientists make up theories? I think so....they get paid to do that...if they're not making real progress they have to fake it or they'll lose their grant money......
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: The Demon Haunted World by Sagan

Postby Lausten » Tue May 26, 2015 10:01 pm

gorgeous wrote:wizards may have existed and might still now.....do some scientists make up theories? I think so....they get paid to do that...if they're not making real progress they have to fake it or they'll lose their grant money......

That's awesome. I kinda expected the part about wizards, but the making up part is triple awesome. I get it. I can sit at my desk and do almost nothing all day and tell my boss that I had to research something, or that I wrote a bunch of code and it didn't work, so I had to delete it. Those things really happen, so they can either look over my shoulder all day or ask for my more evidence of what I did, or they can just accept it. As long as things aren't falling apart, it's fine. So, if you see "scientist" as any other job where you have hapless bosses who spend too much time in meetings and filling out paper work, then that would fit.

But it's not a normal job. You do actually have to show evidence for everything you do, and people are looking over your shoulder in the sense that everything you do is double checked, if not by someone in your lab, then definitely someone else in another lab. That is actually what makes it science. You can't just fake it, you have to prove it, or at least prove that you are on to something and that it is worth further investment to continue to attempt to prove it.
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Re: The Demon Haunted World by Sagan

Postby Poodle » Tue May 26, 2015 11:36 pm

gorgeous wrote:wizards may have existed and might still now.....do some scientists make up theories? I think so....they get paid to do that...if they're not making real progress they have to fake it or they'll lose their grant money......


What's it like living in a world where evi... evid... EvIden...

Wow - I can't even type it.

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Re: The Demon Haunted World by Sagan

Postby JO 753 » Tue May 26, 2015 11:39 pm

gorgeous wrote:wizards may have existed and might still now.....do some scientists make up theories? I think so....they get paid to do that...if they're not making real progress they have to fake it or they'll lose their grant money......


Fraud duz happen occassionally. More often, sumwun just plain gets it rong. But like Lausten sed, sumwun else catchez it.

The thing with the woo industry iz that everybody iz motivated to let everybody else get away with their scam, lest more srutiny iz turned on them. You dont want to encouraj any skeptisizm. The more gullible everybody iz, the better thingz are for the entire industry.
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Re: The Demon Haunted World by Sagan

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed May 27, 2015 12:39 am

JO 753 wrote:
gorgeous wrote:wizards may have existed and might still now.....do some scientists make up theories? I think so....they get paid to do that...if they're not making real progress they have to fake it or they'll lose their grant money......


Fraud duz happen occassionally. More often, sumwun just plain gets it rong. But like Lausten sed, sumwun else catchez it.

The thing with the woo industry iz that everybody iz motivated to let everybody else get away with their scam, lest more srutiny iz turned on them. You dont want to encouraj any skeptisizm. The more gullible everybody iz, the better thingz are for the entire industry.

+1
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Re: The Demon Haunted World by Sagan

Postby JO 753 » Wed May 27, 2015 1:35 am

I think that mite actually be frum the book.
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Re: The Demon Haunted World by Sagan

Postby Lausten » Wed May 27, 2015 2:44 am

JO 753 wrote:
gorgeous wrote:wizards may have existed and might still now.....do some scientists make up theories? I think so....they get paid to do that...if they're not making real progress they have to fake it or they'll lose their grant money......


Fraud duz happen occassionally. More often, sumwun just plain gets it rong. But like Lausten sed, sumwun else catchez it.

The thing with the woo industry iz that everybody iz motivated to let everybody else get away with their scam, lest more srutiny iz turned on them. You dont want to encouraj any skeptisizm. The more gullible everybody iz, the better thingz are for the entire industry.

PT Barnum figured that out. He had some kind of statue, of Bigfoot or something, then some guy came along and said he had a statue of the REAL Bigfoot. The idiot actually sued Barnum for fraud. Barnum tried to talk him out of it, saying arguing about it in the press would increase publicity, but actually presenting evidence and trying to make a logical case would expose both of them. Once it got to court it didn't last very long, the case was thrown out.
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