Russian talk points in Russian Indictment

Where no two people are likely to agree.
User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 31613
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: Russian talk points in Russian Indictment

Postby Gord » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:19 am

Aztexan wrote:Amerikkka, Russia and N Korea are the new axis of evil. Three bullets can change that.

No, three bullets would not change it. It would take actual political and cultural reform to do that.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

Aztexan
King of the Limericks
King of the Limericks
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:39 pm

Re: Russian talk points in Russian Indictment

Postby Aztexan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:31 am

That won't happen either.
trump is Putin's bitch

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5372
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Russian talk points in Russian Indictment

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:01 am

Bart Stewart wrote:I hate it when people say that Russia "meddled" in our election.

Russia attacked our election, and installed a puppet.

The fact that Trump has bucked the near-unanimous will of Congress and "declined" to implement the sanctions on Russia that Congress required of him really says all you need to know. He has also shrugged off the entirety of the US intelligence command, who say that Russia did indeed intervene in the election. Trump is doing exactly nothing to stop future Russian attacks on American elections.

Then there's the long history of Trump trying to court Russian business big shots, going back to the Gorbachev era. His sons have said that the family business gets significant funding from Russia. One and only one individual on planet Earth is immune from the Trump insult barrage. (You know who.) And when Trump came back from an economic summit in 2017, he said he wanted to form a cyber-security pact with - - THE RUSSIANS!

If Trump is not a Russian agent he might as well be one.



It seems that there may be a a question of wanting to believe something rather than a question of what seems to compute and what doesn't.

There are some Christians who can look at a beautiful sunset and honestly feel the presence of The Virgin Mary, and some liberals it seems, who look at US election results and wholeheartedly feel the presence of Putin.

Is it possible that for some True Believers, the beauty of a sunset or the ugliness of the US election results, (despite Hillary winning the popular vote), simply cannot be explained in any other way?
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/02/jos ... t-mean-it/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2152
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: Russian talk points in Russian Indictment

Postby OutOfBreath » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:35 am

Tom Palven wrote:Is it possible that for some True Believers, the beauty of a sunset or the ugliness of the US election results, (despite Hillary winning the popular vote), simply cannot be explained in any other way?
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/02/jos ... t-mean-it/


It is entirely possible that Trump could have pulled off without the russians helping him. America's troubles are mostly self-inflicted, but that's not the point is it? The russians ARE attacking elections (not just america's) and they ARE using internet troll machines to do so. They use it on themselves as well, as the authorities deftly silences/removes any serious opposition candidate leaving Putin to contest a field of loonies where he romps home every time. So both can be true: Russia did interfere, without it being really decisive. (although with an election that close many things could have been decisive)

What don't square about your positions, Tom, is that you seem to be an eternal apologist for Russia's semi-authoritarian regime while otherwise talking about libertarian principles. It's always a "tu quoque" argument in wait from you as well. Do you recognize Russia and it's regime for what it is, or are you too caught up in your crusade against US authorities to notice?

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5372
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Russian talk points in Russian Indictment

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:52 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:Is it possible that for some True Believers, the beauty of a sunset or the ugliness of the US election results, (despite Hillary winning the popular vote), simply cannot be explained in any other way?
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/02/jos ... t-mean-it/


Do you recognize Russia and it's regime for what it is, or are you too caught up in your crusade against US authorities to notice?

Peace
Dan


Dan,

Russia has an economy about 1/10 th the size of the US and smaller than the economies of NATO countries France, Italy, Germany, England, and Canada, and smaller than the economies of US allies Japan and South Korea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... P_(nominal)

Despite the warmongering mantra of the MIC/Deep State I just can't accept Russia as a credible enemy.

As I've said before. I think that the days of Soviet expansionism are over and that Russsia is just trying to protect its oil and gas pipelines and interests in the Mid-East. I realize that you disagree because you've already said so. C'est la vie.

Peace.
Tom
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4117
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: Russian talk points in Russian Indictment

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:01 pm

You haven't answered the question, Tom.
Do you understand what kind of regime Putin is running? No matter how much the CIA tries to interfere in Russian elections, that will be nothing compared to constant manipulation and misinformation the Russian state is subjecting its citizens to.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28530
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Russian talk points in Russian Indictment

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:04 am

Tom Palven wrote:I just can't accept Russia as a credible enemy.

Let's be clear. Are you directly denying Russia interfered in the USA 2016 elections?

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28530
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Russian talk points in Russian Indictment

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:19 am

ElectricMonk wrote:You haven't answered the question, Tom.
Tom never answers direct questions.

It seems to me that the Libertarian Party of Russia has more influence over the International Alliance of Libertarian Parties than the USA Libertarian Party. nowadays.

Libertarian Policies
No public welfare or social security,
No gun control
No public education,
No public health service,
No domestic or foreign intelligence services,
No public environmental protection laws,
No army

Entertainingly, Ron Paul, the former Libertarian party member of Congress, appears more on Russia Today television than any USA network. It is simply another method of Russian propaganda to isolate the USA.

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2152
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: Russian talk points in Russian Indictment

Postby OutOfBreath » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:27 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:Is it possible that for some True Believers, the beauty of a sunset or the ugliness of the US election results, (despite Hillary winning the popular vote), simply cannot be explained in any other way?
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/02/jos ... t-mean-it/


Do you recognize Russia and it's regime for what it is, or are you too caught up in your crusade against US authorities to notice?

Peace
Dan


Dan,

Russia has an economy about 1/10 th the size of the US and smaller than the economies of NATO countries France, Italy, Germany, England, and Canada, and smaller than the economies of US allies Japan and South Korea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... P_(nominal)

Despite the warmongering mantra of the MIC/Deep State I just can't accept Russia as a credible enemy.

As I've said before. I think that the days of Soviet expansionism are over and that Russsia is just trying to protect its oil and gas pipelines and interests in the Mid-East. I realize that you disagree because you've already said so. C'est la vie.

Peace.
Tom

Side-stepping a bit again Tom. I made no statement regarding the world domination potential of Russia, nor is it relevant. The question isn't whether Russia can become the biggest, baddest worldwide, but what it's interests are, how it pursues them and the nature and modus operandi of it's current regime/government. Percentages of GDP is irrelevant. Regimes can be malevolent and really bad, without having the clout of the US globally. Like Saudi, N Korea etc etc. Russia is pursuing it's own regime's interests, which is expansionist (within it's claimed sphere of influence), ethno-nationalistic and pretty anti-democratic. Doesn't matter if the US can out-nuke them really.

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert


Return to “Politics and Government”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: istellabot [Bot] and 1 guest