753 2020

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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:20 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
JO 753 wrote:You need to rethink your definition uv 'evidence'.
I am very satisfied from an intelligence point of view that Trump is being manipulated by the Russians. However good intelligence does not have to comply with the laws of evidence to allow for a court prosecution.

To end this Trump style presidency ever happening again, the matter must be taken to court with the best evidence under the "best evidence rules". That means we have to wait for the Attorney General's office to prepare the best case.

Additionally, to allow further prosecution of all naughty players, we have to have a firm court case against some of them to allow plea bargain negotiations and that is what we are watching in real time.

I suggest to you that the more important question is what damage can Trump do to distract from the court prosecution case being brought against him? How do we mitigate further damage in this period of time? Can the damage be repaired when Trump gets the boot? Things like this.
I agree with all uv that.

Every minute Trumpuppet iz in offis iz a foolish risk with zero to be gained.

He can be impeached and taken away in cuffs on any wun uv a dozen provable charjez rite now and Meuller can continue hiz investigation. This woud also prevent Trump from pardoning all the convicted/confessed co-conspiritorz.

Wut we are in the middle uv iz creeping standardz (cant recall the actual name for it), in wich offensez keep moving our expectationz lower and lower, so each new outraje seemz like only a small offens.

Can you imajin the firestorm that woud hav followed a revelation in 2012 that Obama paid off a porn star to hide an affair? He woud hav lost to Romney in a landslide.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:48 am

JO 753 wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:And what is the evidence that he has committed any of those crimes?
I think the most convinsing fact iz that Trump knowingly committed an impeachable crime to protect Flynn. He can go to prizon for obstruction, so wuts so much worse that its worth the risk? (in case you are sitting front row sentr staje in the Fox eko chamber - it wuz wen he scooted everybody else out uv the meeting and asked Comey to stop the investigation.)
JO, I'm no fan of Trump but that's not evidence of anything. That's hearsay.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:15 am

JO 753 wrote:He can be impeached and taken away in cuffs on any wun uv a dozen provable charjez rite now and Meuller can continue hiz investigation. This woud also prevent Trump from pardoning all the convicted/confessed co-conspiritorz.
If we "jump the gun" and do not follow due process in court, then Gorgeous, Venerable Kwan tom Woo and Xouper will just spam more pro-Trump rubbish about how Trump was unfairly treated.

The aim is to make court prosecution so clear, with good evidence, in court, that Gorgeous, Venerable Kwan Tom Woo and Xouper say "I knew he was guilty all the time but I was only playing devil's advocate."

In my mind, we want to give the current Trump supporters an exit strategy, where they can save face, simply to get normal policy based parties a chance to offer the voters something for 2020.

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Re: 753 2020

Post by Gord » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:35 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
JO 753 wrote:He can be impeached and taken away in cuffs on any wun uv a dozen provable charjez rite now and Meuller can continue hiz investigation. This woud also prevent Trump from pardoning all the convicted/confessed co-conspiritorz.
If we "jump the gun" and do not follow due process in court, then Gorgeous, Venerable Kwan tom Woo and Xouper will just spam more pro-Trump rubbish about how Trump was unfairly treated.
And they'd be right! If you jump the gun and do not follow due process for someone, they would be unfairly treated. Trump has treated many people unfairly, but that doesn't mean we're justified in being unfair to him just because we're pissed off at him.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:58 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
JO 753 wrote:He can be impeached and taken away in cuffs on any wun uv a dozen provable charjez rite now and Meuller can continue hiz investigation. This woud also prevent Trump from pardoning all the convicted/confessed co-conspiritorz.
If we "jump the gun" and do not follow due process in court,....
If Trump were impeached........he could NOT be taken away in cuffs. A sad example of lack of gun control in the USA....there can be no jumping.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:22 pm

Austin Harper wrote:JO, I'm no fan of Trump but that's not evidence of anything. That's hearsay.
Maybe not. The perseevd definition uv 'evidence' iz very shoddy and fuzzy. Useless wen trying to debate real world situationz.
Frum the Firefly fan Forum:
Most peepl confuze it with 'proof' - sumthing that leadz directly to an undeniabl conclusion. Proof can be thot uv az a yes/no binary term. Sumthing either iz or iz not proof. There iz no degree to it.

Evidens can be anything - a 5th hand comment about a 3rd hand quote uv sumthing a drunk Skid Row bum mumbled in hiz sleep. Thats extreemly weak evidens, you woudnt bet much on it being true or even related to wutever you are considering, but its still evidens. It mite be true and related to your subject AND helpful.

Or evidens can be the literal smoking gun in the hand uv the perpetrator, identical to 'proof'. It can be anything between the 2 extreemz.

With this in mind, you can see that the statements 'there iz zero evidens' and 'I see no evidens' rarely make sens.
You dont sit patiently in the passenjer seat and let the driver crash aftr you realize he iz blind drunk. Shoud you wait for a breathelyzer test to proov it? Iz America less important than a single car and its occupants?
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:30 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:If Trump were impeached........he could NOT be taken away in cuffs.
He coud be indited also. Hav an assistant DA slap a charj together on any uv the lesser casez. Even if it duznt hold up, it accomplishez the goal uv getting him out uv the driver seat. Mueller and hiz team can continue putting their case together without interferens.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:13 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:JO, I'm no fan of Trump but that's not evidence of anything. That's hearsay.
Maybe not. The perseevd definition uv 'evidence' iz very shoddy and fuzzy. Useless wen trying to debate real world situationz.
Frum the Firefly fan Forum:
Most peepl confuze it with 'proof' - sumthing that leadz directly to an undeniabl conclusion. Proof can be thot uv az a yes/no binary term. Sumthing either iz or iz not proof. There iz no degree to it.

Evidens can be anything - a 5th hand comment about a 3rd hand quote uv sumthing a drunk Skid Row bum mumbled in hiz sleep. Thats extreemly weak evidens, you woudnt bet much on it being true or even related to wutever you are considering, but its still evidens. It mite be true and related to your subject AND helpful.

Or evidens can be the literal smoking gun in the hand uv the perpetrator, identical to 'proof'. It can be anything between the 2 extreemz.

With this in mind, you can see that the statements 'there iz zero evidens' and 'I see no evidens' rarely make sens.
You dont sit patiently in the passenjer seat and let the driver crash aftr you realize he iz blind drunk. Shoud you wait for a breathelyzer test to proov it? Iz America less important than a single car and its occupants?
That's not an example of evidence. That's example of an unsubstantiated claim, which is all we have for Trump at this point. That's not to say there won't be any evidence (I'm almost certain there will be) but you can't impeach the president because you think there will be evidence later.

In case you don't remember, Article II Section 4 of the Constitution says
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
The House may draw Articles of Impeachment if they believe the President is guilty of any of those. There is no reason any representative would draft Articles of Impeachment unless there was reason to believe that 1) the articles would be approved by the House and 2) the Senate would convict on those articles with a supermajority, which would require hard evidence of those crimes.

Currently the Republicans hold the House 238-193, they hold the Senate 51-47, and there is no hard evidence against the President. The House Democrats don't impeach the President for the same reason the DA wouldn't charge somebody for a crime just because he heard from somebody that the guy had done something wrong, even if the guy was a total {!#%@}.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:01 pm

Austin Harper wrote:That's not an example of evidence.
True. Its a statement about the consept and definition uv a word.
That's example of an unsubstantiated claim, which is all we have for Trump at this point.
Incorrect. It needz no substantiation and wuznt directly about any charj agenst Trump.
That's not to say there won't be any evidence (I'm almost certain there will be) but you can't impeach the president because you think there will be evidence later.
Incorrect. They coud impeach him for hiz dumass haircut if they want. Findlaw.com. Prezidential Impeachment.

Bill Clinton wuz impeached over hiz Monica Lewinski affair. The charj wuz obsturction uv justis, same az Nixon. "The coverup iz worse than the crime".

Attempting to cover up hiz baldness with an outlandish configuration uv comboverz iz conduct unbecoming uv The Offis. Or they can go with the ded-to -rites attempt to obstruct the FBI investigation uv Flynn. The flimzy cover story for firing Comey that he conspired with Sessions and otherz to create and then within dayz uv deploying it, admitted it wuz actually "this Rusher thing" to Lester Holt on national TV.

There is no reason any representative would draft Articles of Impeachment unless there was reason to believe that 1) the articles would be approved by the House and 2) the Senate would convict on those articles with a supermajority, which would require hard evidence of those crimes.
Incorrect: CNN. House Democrats introduse articlez uv impeachment, November 26 2017
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:46 pm

JO 753 wrote:
There is no reason any representative would draft Articles of Impeachment unless there was reason to believe that 1) the articles would be approved by the House and 2) the Senate would convict on those articles with a supermajority, which would require hard evidence of those crimes.
Incorrect: CNN. House Democrats introduse articlez uv impeachment, November 26 2017
You're right here. I should have said "It would be really stupid to draft Articles of Impeachment..." since they did do it. But you see how effective it was, right? Now, what might be different at the conclusion of Mueller's investigation? =
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:10 am

Trump finally enacted the sanctionz agenst Russia.

Will Putin retaliate?

Or maybe the delay wuz Putin figuring out wut Trump shoud do and he came up with a plan.

And, true to the Trump Show formula, thats not the only development this week.

Meuller haz subpeoned the Trump Organization for all recordz conserning Russia.

Therez a bath uv blud brewing in the Wite Hows - a bunch uv hi level firingz.

Another Trump lawyer iz involved in trying to cover up the porn star affair.

And tune in next week for Melania filing for divors and Don Jr'z divors (alredy filed)
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:14 am

JO 753 wrote:Trump finally enacted the sanctionz agenst Russia. Will Putin retaliate?
Probably. However Putin's aim is to keep the USA busy on its own turf and too busy to do anything against Russia's activities in Syria and other hot spots. It is all about distraction. It is the same trick used by a stage magician. He makes everyone look at one hand while doing all the work with the other hand.

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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:21 am

Hard to tell wuts the distraction and wuts the real thing going on.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:52 am

JO 753 wrote:Hard to tell wuts the distraction and wuts the real thing going on.
The really hard trick is to try to discover and prepare for the next new sort of distraction. We can't always be reacting and following their dance steps.

If you look at Russia's end game plan......they are almost there. Therefore distractions will probably change. Putin got the USA and UK out of Europe and Putin wants to trade with Europe. Russia's military has been its weakest for a decade while converting to a professional army. Now they are upgraded, militarily, they don't need distractions to keep NATO confused in Eastern Europe. The Russians wanted to regain a sphere of influence and they just showed everyone that they can deliver in Syria.

I think things are going to start settling down.

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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:02 am

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Re: 753 2020

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:49 am

That was a strange opinion piece. "How to stand up to the Kremlin" which gave examples of the old USSR and modern Russian Federation as evidence, without distinguishment. In reality the modern Russians stood up to the "Kremlin" and took shots at the Russian Whitehouse in Moscow.

We just had a Russian revolution in 1991, and everyone has forgotten. They chucked out the communists.

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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:59 am

Were the communists ever really communists?

Seemz to me that it haz alwayz been an organized crime operation - a mob. After the fall, wun uv the mobsterz took over.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:06 am

JO 753 wrote:Were the communists ever really communists?
Yes they were. Lenin was the first to move away from true Marxism when he let a little bit of commercialism in in 1922. Lenin wanted certain people to remain in charge when he died, but Stalin took over and became a dictator. Stalin didn't do this as a gangster but rather as a narcissistic dictator.

The political gangster element is really a modern phenomena from the 1970s as Russians allowed overseas, first saw the wealth of the West. Once communism fell in the 1990 it was "gloves off" and these apparatchiks took the money.

Russia actually had, even under communism, normal gangsters all the time. A famous Russian movie "The Cold Summer of 1953" is about gangsters taking over a village and the noble Russian soldier who stops them.

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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:45 pm

Interesting.

My perspectiv iz that The Goverment, no matter wut form, iz really just the strongest gang in a country. The US iz suppozedly a nation uv lawz, but the law iz usually being controlled by a political party that works like a gang. Its been a sloppy, motley patchwork from the beginning that haz sorta kept the balans from tipping too far in any direction for long, so here we are, still in bizness.

The current situation in Washington coud possibly end that.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:06 pm

JO 753 wrote:Interesting.

My perspectiv iz that The Goverment, no matter wut form, iz really just the strongest gang in a country. The US iz suppozedly a nation uv lawz, but the law iz usually being controlled by a political party that works like a gang. Its been a sloppy, motley patchwork from the beginning that haz sorta kept the balans from tipping too far in any direction for long, so here we are, still in bizness.

The current situation in Washington coud possibly end that.
There is a big difference between political factions and gangs. A gang's focus is much more narrow, focussed on the needs of the gang. Political factions are broadly focussed on the needs of the community as a whole (as the faction sees them, of course).

Both parties in the US are looking more and more like gangs and less and less like the foci of political factions, especially the last couple of decades.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:34 pm

Coud it seem like its only the last couple uv decadez kuz thats how long youv been paying attention to them?

I had no interest in politics or history until resently myself, so it wuz a little suprizing to read about wut wuz happening in the early yirz uv the US. There were campane debates az bad az the Republican clown showz we've had in the last 2 electionz. Dueling wuz still a way to settle differensez. Candidates boasting about their wienerz.

A brief history: Wiki: Political partyz in the US
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Re: 753 2020

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:47 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote: A gang's focus is much more narrow, focussed on the needs of the gang.
A gang's focus is making money for the gang leader. Other members get only enough to keep them from joining other gangs doing the same thing. Too much of politics is gang behavior with the leader being more diverse.

Many people join Congress from modest backgrounds. They all leave rich.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:24 pm

Washington had sumthing to say about partyz in hiz final address. Herez a snippet from a summary on wiki:
...political parties must be restrained in a popularly elected government because of their tendency to distract the government from their duties, create unfounded jealousies among groups and regions, raise false alarms among the people, promote riots and insurrection, and provide foreign nations and interests access to the government where they can impose their will upon the country.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:04 am

JO 753 wrote:I sent a similar email to Dick Durbin, the Democrat Senator for my district, a few weeks ago. I also called hiz Chicago and Washington offisez to tell them to watch for the email. (spoke to actual live peepl). Also no reply.
(about the treazon going on in Washington)

I got a reply today! Duznt seem to be a mass mailing kuz there are a few mistake wordz that spell checkerz dont see, like 'mission' wen it shoud be 'million'.

No real newz. Just sum info about wut the Senate iz and iznt doing that I'v alredy seen on the newz. Better than nothing.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:15 am

JO 753 wrote:My perspectiv iz that The Goverment, no matter wut form, iz really just the strongest gang in a country.
That doesn't work outside of the USA, where most governments are alliances, as no single party can form a government on its own. Even in Australia, the current government is the Liberal Party and National Party coalition. In Germany there are three parties in government.

In Italy.......well forget Italy.....it's just a complete mess.
. :D

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Re: 753 2020

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:23 am

Thats a very nice/important recognition Matt: thanks. Hmmmm....I have long thought the two party system that developed in the USA was at the heart of much that is wrong in our system along with the "winner takes all" win/lose paradigms that flow from it ....and a host of other issues.... Most who have thought about it including most of our Founding Fathers were against parties but they didn't put in any affirmative measures against it. ....Hmmm.... I think they also thought if two parties became a problem the constitution could be amended to address it? Then...they made it almost impossible to amend. //////// Its always the little details........
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Austin Harper » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:46 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:In Italy.......well forget Italy.....it's just a complete mess. . :D
In Italy it's bunga bunga time.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:44 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:That doesn't work outside of the USA, where most governments are alliances, as no single party can form a government on its own .
Thats if you consider the goverment to only include the 'executivez'.

I consider the goverment to be the entire mess uv byurocrats, military, polise, senatorz, zoning inspectorz, governorz, dictator, prezident, public skool teacherz, mayorz. Everybody hoo gets paid by taxez to boss everybody else around.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:27 pm

My first cabinet pick iz Arnold Schwartzzenneggar for Secretary uv State:
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:47 am

Great speech by Schumer.


I say this Klingon shoud be the Speaker uv the House!
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:54 pm

Not sure I understand your Klingon comparison, but that was a great speech.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:09 pm

The wierdly rinkled forhed.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sun May 06, 2018 3:24 am

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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Wed May 23, 2018 11:02 am

From the home paje uv my campane site:
Do not make the mistake of thinking America can't possibly become an official oligarchy rather than just the
virtual oligarchy it is now. Those rich suckers can count. And they are counting on your apathy and inattention
to let their congressmen, senators, governors and Trumps tweek the levers just a little bit more without
any pesky watchdogs interfering.
Rote that in January 2017

Yesterday the GoPs dumped many uv the lawz that were intended to prevent a repeat uv the 08 collapse.
WaPo report on Congressional vote to crash the economy agen.
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not the rich.

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JO 753
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Wed May 23, 2018 11:16 am

I'm thinking uv rejistering for a rite-in vote for IL governor.

I'll call it the No Money campane, put up a single paje on my Prez website and thats it. No money and very little effort kuz thats wut its worth.

Illinois haz a King, Micheal Madigan, speaker uv the house. He haz been in that offis for decadez, wielding nearly unlimited power over the state gubmint. The Governor iz practicly a figurehed, yet we hav 2 billionairez duking it out for the job. Pritzger and Rauner spent over 60 million each in the primaryz and will probably exeed haf a billion together before its over.

My paje will put forth the idea that we dont need to be giving in to oligarky without a fite.
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not the rich.

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Re: 753 2020

Post by Aztexan » Thu May 24, 2018 2:09 am

Have buses filled with angry brown-skinned crisis voters ready to depart for Chitown at the drop of a sombrero. Let us know when.

All hail Soros!!!
trump is Putin's bitch

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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Thu May 24, 2018 8:46 pm

The bought & paid for fake newz main stream media iz hiding my candidasy. You'll never hear about it anywhere but here, fokes! George Soros finansing and colluding with the Clintonz and Barak Hussain Obama will bury me under an avalanch uv liez created by the Deep State elite Washington think tanks. Even if a peep gets out it wont matter kuz they will send an army uv creepy porn star lawyerz to make me look like a combination uv Adolf Hitler & Larry Nasser! They wil fabricate a fake news bought& paid for conspirasy involving Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un, Haliburton, Pee Wee Herman, Ted Kazinski and hundredz uv washed up porn actorz & actressez.



PS - NancyPelosiChuckSchumerWilliamHolderRobertMueller

hail Hydra
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:20 am

Seemz that wut I'm doing iznt quite a new idea. Ran across the Front Porch Campane wile reading about Prez Harding. Perfect for a lazy slacker like me!
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:36 am

Frum the Wiki article:
Harding's vague oratory irritated some; McAdoo described a typical Harding speech as "an army of pompous phrases moving over the landscape in search of an idea. Sometimes these meandering words actually capture a straggling thought and bear it triumphantly, a prisoner in their midst, until it died of servitude and over work."
:lol:
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:12 pm

Updated the TrumPutin paje.

Not much to say, just wanted to get a pik uv Trump with hiz pants down in Helsinki online.
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not the rich.