753 2020

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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:42 pm

DAMIT!

I owe 50$ kuz I bet Trump woud be out befor the end uv 2017. Wors, I will haf to lissin to sum gloating frum the idiot who wun.

Still sum hope: Maybe by the time I hav 50 buks to pay, Trump will hav crashed the economy and 50 will buy a Hershey bar.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Aztexan » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:43 pm

Dude, trump your friend that 50 bucks. That's an excellent opportunity to show him an example of how that shyster operates. Stiff that {!#%@} then send a goon over to threaten him with litigation if he ever brings it up.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:06 pm

Funny you shoud mention that.

I did u job for him and from the start it wuz obvious that he wuz planning on Trumping me. Didnt fall for it, wich made him very angry.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:28 am

I payed up a few dayz ago. Didnt get any gloating!

I finally got a start on the TAX paje.

Its just the intro with my jeneral opinion. A Dude hoo goez by 6stringJack in the Firefly forum haz a bunch uv ideaz. Seem good to me, but wut do I no? In a week or 2 I shoud hav alot uv it up for critique. I'll also go back to review stuff posted here a few months ago. You can join the Firefly Fan Forum and chime in there.

Better yet, post your ideaz and opinionz here.

I wont be activating the TAX button to the paje till its complete.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:30 am

Updated the TrumPutin paje.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:11 am

Finally got the TAX paje up.

Obviously its just a jeneral outline. Broad strokes. Summary uv basic prinsipalz. I am hoping to get sum feedback from everybody to flesh it out, but I want to keep it less than haf the size uv the current US Tax Code wen its complete.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:09 am

Shoud there be an inheritance tax?

I think the orijinal idea wuz to prevent familyz from becoming dynastyz with too much power. Thats a sensible consern, but it seemz to me it haznt worked - we are living in an oligarky.

I think there shoud be sumthing like the anti-trust law to deal with this and maybe it coud involv an inheritans tax taylored to the multi-billionaire situation.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:20 pm

Social Security 2017 report summary
At least 2 uv the trusteez are Trump crooks - Mnuchin and Price. Everybody shoud be worried, even tho Price iz alredy axed.

I added stuff the the SS section on the tax paje
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Aztexan » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:12 pm

Anytime someone mentions trump and SS, I don't think Social Security or Secret Service. Something else entirely comes to mind.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:49 pm

California Crowded

From the NBC article:
BERKELEY, Calif. — A median-priced one-bedroom apartment in San Francisco rents for nearly $3,300 a month. In the Silicon Valley community of San Mateo, the median home will set you back almost $1.4 million. Even in semi-rural Petaluma in Sonoma County, at least an hour drive from the city, rent for a one-bedroom can reach $2,000 and more.
Packed in like sardinez. ANGRY sardinez!

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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:01 pm

Tax cut skam Paul Krugman op-ed.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:14 pm

A big part uv how money gets moved from the poor to the welthy iz housing - rent and morgaj.

Wut if we rent control the entire country?

Woud that automaticly supress real estate prise escalation or woud property value caps also be needed? And how woud that work? A per skwer foot cap on floor spase soundz like the best at first, but then it haz to be modified to account for actual value.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:23 pm

JO 753 wrote:A big part uv how money gets moved from the poor to the welthy iz ======>.
As you posted just above===>TAX POLICY. Rent control is micro managing with lots of issues on its own. At a minimum: the posted tax rates should be PAID...without the winks and smirks that make tax cheats "admirable" in the way that we do.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:33 pm

Aztexan wrote:Anytime someone mentions trump and SS, I don't think Social Security or Secret Service. Something else entirely comes to mind.
$$?

Stoopid Shyster?

SS?

All uv the abuv for me. We're about a month away from the American Nite uv xu Long Nivez.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:44 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: As you posted just above===>TAX POLICY.
Iz there a direct connection?

I see the indirect property tax escalation with property 'value' inflation.
Rent control is micro managing with lots of issues on its own.
I know New York sity haz rent control and it haznt destroyed their economy.
At a minimum: the posted tax rates should be PAID...without the winks and smirks that make tax cheats "admirable" in the way that we do.
The breaks I know about are rezidents pay less than ownerz who rent out the property and the special breaks given to biznessez that will suppozedly create jobz.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:01 pm

JO 753 wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: As you posted just above===>TAX POLICY.
Iz there a direct connection? /////// Yes--it is DIRECT and immediate.

I see the indirect property tax escalation with property 'value' inflation. //// I was thinking income tax, but yes, it applies to all tax schemes.
Rent control is micro managing with lots of issues on its own.
I know New York sity haz rent control and it haznt destroyed their economy. //// Destruction is never the measurement.
At a minimum: the posted tax rates should be PAID...without the winks and smirks that make tax cheats "admirable" in the way that we do.
The breaks I know about are rezidents pay less than ownerz who rent out the property and the special breaks given to biznessez that will suppozedly create jobz.
There are "breaks" aka loophools aka special provisions "everywhere." Its why the tax code isn't 5 pages long.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:34 pm

My nominee for the most blatantly made for the rich iz called the 'intentionally flawed trust fund'. I recall it being sumthing about stashing money in sum sorta tax free hole that lets you spend it without the IRS saying 'AHA! So you really do hav money!'
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:29 am

JO 753 wrote:My nominee for the most blatantly made for the rich iz called the 'intentionally flawed trust fund'. I recall it being sumthing about stashing money in sum sorta tax free hole that lets you spend it without the IRS saying 'AHA! So you really do hav money!'
There are many scams like this. In general, most countries have tax laws that allow for prosecution, if the taxpayer still has control over the money overseas or in a fake arm's length holding entity. Therefore the tax avoidance schemes have to be dressed up to look legal and real.

Here's the simple version of the scam using a copyright.


Step A
Paul creates a new software package in the USA. (which may be bogus or real)
Paul sets up a shelf company in Cyprus "owned" by his lawyer.
Paul loans the company in Cyprus $100,000 and the Cyprus company then buys the software package from Paul, for $100,000
Paul pays lower tax on the capital gain income from the sale or the copyright.

Step B
The Cyprus company then rents the software back to Paul in the USA, for an amount equal to Paul's annual taxable profit.
As there is no tax on companies in Cyprus, Paul has transfered his USA profits to Cyprus.

Step C
The Cyprus company then loans Paul, in the USA, using accumulated money and charges Paul interest. The interest and ongoing rent of the software allows Paul to send more money legally to Cyprus.

Michael Hutchence / INXs
Michael Hutchence did this sort of scam. When Michael died, his lawyer simply said he owned all the overseas assets and kept them and did not pay anything to Michael's remaining family.

The Russians did this scam in the 90's when they were undervaluing Russian assets and buying them using overseas companies in places like Cyprus.
Russian-Investors.jpg
"Google Tax"
The UK and Australia have introduced a new additional tax to stop this scheme, nicknamed "Google tax". The tax will be on domestic turnover and/or annual profit. That means big companies will stop using the scheme in the UK and Australia. That's why we can collect more tax revenue despite having lower tax rates.
:D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_tax
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Re: 753 2020

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:30 am

there are lots of "Sham" trust funds. Trust Funds in form with some provision that disqualifies them.......but you get the tax break until the IRS investigates and disqualifies the Trust........aka: a Trust alone is not enough, you have to buy enough politicians so that the IRS will get underfunded and not have the resources to bust sham trust funds that were set up and run as a fraud from the very beginning.

AlreadyTooRich Economics 101.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:46 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:there are lots of "Sham" trust funds.
Trusts are a medieval contract, where a person gives his property, to another person (the trustee)' with a set set of instructions of how that money must be spent. They evolved when people gave their money to the church.

In a company, there is a fixed unchanging way to how the profit must be given to shareholders according to the share percentages. In a modern discretionary trust the trustee can choose to give different amounts money, in any way as long as they are the stated beneficiaries of the trust. That gives a lot of power to pay beneficiaries who are in the lower tax percentiles. That's why I have a discretionary family trust to pay Amanda, my partner and eventually my children when they reach 18. In my case, the trustee is a company that I own all the shares. That's still legal. :D

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Re: 753 2020

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:00 am

Discretionary inter-vivos Trusts are just a tax avoidance vehicle of which there are a lot of. Its the stated purpose of such vehicles that one can argue with: "why?" Why should home owners deduct interest, avoiding tax, when renters cannot? why should anyone be able to legally avoid taxes just because they form a trust? WHY???

Its to advantage the AlreadyTooRich. its how wealth is transferred from the poor to the AlreadyTooRich. This may rankle you, but its just a continuity curve from poverty to Bill Gates. We are all on that curve.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:10 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Its the stated purpose of such vehicles that one can argue with: "why?"
You are now getting into tax law and you are right. The law here (Australia) is that you have to show that the activity you undertook was for business purposes and not simply avoiding tax on its own. However it is very complex law, not for its legislation or acts, but the guiding commonlaw ( judge made law) of rulings made in higher courts.

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Re: 753 2020

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:28 am

Its always: the $$$$. Only fools can think otherwise, which is enshrined in the law....aka: that second step that is required for Sham Trust Funds to work...although in "legitimate" ones with a different flim flam (stated purpose vs just wanting to avoid taxes). In order to save money: just tell me what clothes to put on over the naked truth.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:37 am

Slite variation in the term here? I think its 'shell company' here in the US, but you rite 'shelf company', Matt. Maybe I hav been mishearing it all along.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:00 am

JO 753 wrote:Slite variation in the term here? I think its 'shell company' here in the US, but you rite 'shelf company', Matt. Maybe I hav been mishearing it all along.
It may be a different nick name in the USA and Australia.

We call them shelf companies because a commercial business will incorporate 100s of companies in their own name as shareholders and directors. The companies don't trade. They have random letter generated names like Potgrob Pty Ltd or Smatbum Pty Ltd. If I have a rock band or TV show that needs a company, I buy one from these people and they pull it's company folder down from a shelf and change the directors and shareholders into my client's names.
https://www.shelfco.com/

I don't bother changing the random company name but simply make the real trading name an intangible asset in the balance sheet. That means I can talk about very well know rock bands and TV shows by using the original random name of the shelf company and anyone listening in hasn't got a clue what I'm talking about.
:D

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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:11 pm

I hav officially chanjed my party affiliation from Democrat to Independent.

Nancy Pelosi arguing agenst impeachment iz the straw that broke the camelz back for me.

Apparently, the danjer uv having Putinz puppet in the Oval Offis iz secondary to wutever convoluted political advantaj she thinks Trump offerz. The reazon she gave (waste uv time kuz McConnell will block it in the senate) iz too stoopid to beleev.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Austin Harper » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:08 pm

JO 753 wrote:The reazon she gave (waste uv time kuz McConnell will block it in the senate) iz too stoopid to beleev.
How is that stupid? What's the point of bringing a futile motion to vote? Or, is she waiting until Mueller finishes his investigation so that the have actual evidence to use?
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:38 am

Copied from a post in the Firefly Fan Forum:
(blue iz the member 'Second'. Green iz my reply)
Until the Democrats have at least
67 Senators, the number required to remove Trump from office, they should
not impeach because they will fail.


A foolish stratejy.

If they impeach, they at least dont get any blame wen Trump duz sumthing dizasterous, so they get to put all the blame the GoPs. Plus, there are
alredy likely enuf GoP senatorz willing to impeach.

Then therez the time waste advantaj. Impeachment proseedingz will tangle
Trump and hiz GoP cronyz up so they wont hav nearly az much time to work
on their MAGA give America to Putin ajenda.

Even if they haf to run out the clock until 2021 wen I take the oath uv
offis, there will be that much less damaj to repair.


Instead, if Democrats get 51 Senators, they should concentrate on a guaranteed success: rejecting all of Trump's far right-wing nominees for judgeships.


They can do this wether they impeach or not, so the argument totally failz.

Another factor iz voterz loozing their patians with the Demz failing to
take action, acting like powerless victim sheep.
The last point iz the most important from a political perspectiv. The left wing media haz been wipping their veiwerz into a frenzy about the TrumPutin conspirasy. This enthuziazm iz diamond encrusted gold and here'z Pelosi throwing it down the crapper. If they cant claim to hav at least tried to kick Trump out in the yir befor the 2020 election, they will be hard pressed for anything to jenerate even ordinary enthuziazm with. And anything Trump duz after the Demz gain control uv Congress WILL be uzed by the GoPs in their campane advertizing.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:43 am

"........♫...Hey Joe!!!!......"

I think your analysis is quite sound. Even an impeach effort that does not succeed might push Trump over the edge earlier than he would do so on his own. Millions ($$$....lives) saved.

Plus....an activity is justified by its legality/precedents/concerns/constitution/motivations..............not by its outcome.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:59 am

Exactly.

Mueller haz alredy gotten 3 or 4 gilty pleaz and more likely befor November. Its like a boxer who haz a wide open rite cross opportunity and he just steps back. Whoz going to bet on him in the next fite?

Here'z a Rupublican campane ad from 2019 if the Demz control Congress and a less than 67 Senate majority:
Putin flattened Chicago with our own nuke. Wut were Democrats working on? Blocking Trumps nominee for the 53rd Circuit Court judge!
Marco Rubio wont let Putin'z puppet Trump bom our sityz!
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Austin Harper » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:03 pm

JO, drawing articles of impeachment with no evidence and insufficient votes would only make the Democrats look like idiots. Drawing articles of impeachment with evidence and almost enough votes put the Republicans in a bad light.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:43 pm

You need to rethink your definition uv 'evidence'.

Not having sufficient votes to actually remove him from offis iz an obscure teknicality to most voterz. If the GoPs keep protect Trump after being impeached, its good campane ammo for the Demz.

Look how the GoPs play up the tinyest little thing and it works, even after being thuroly and repeatedly debunked. They are STILL playing "you can keep your doctor" in campane adz here in Illinois!
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Austin Harper » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:07 pm

I don't need to check my definition of evidence. What do you think Mueller is doing?
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:49 pm

Austin Harper wrote:JO, drawing articles of impeachment with no evidence and insufficient votes would only make the Democrats look like idiots. Drawing articles of impeachment with evidence and almost enough votes put the Republicans in a bad light.
1 Trump statement favoring Putin iz evidens. Not alot, but if you had a pro/con list going for conspirasy, wic side duz it go on?

But we hav way the hell more than that going on the pro side with not so much az a hypothetical hail Mary gess on the con side to explain anything.
(OK, therez a few that I made up myself, but nobody on Trumps side haz offered anything)

Dont forget that we dont need to consider court rulez - 'shadow uv a dowt' iz not the standard for impeachment and there are no standardz for political advertizements.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Austin Harper » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:07 pm

What are the exact crimes Trump has committed that would prompt his impeachment?
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:06 pm

Treazon.
Obstruction uv justis.
Emolument violationz.
Campane law violationz.
Money laundering.
Tax evasion.
Bribery.
Witness tampering.
Then therez a bunch uv sexual misconduct charjez that are basicly being ignored, wich woud hav been the end for any other Prez.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Austin Harper » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:20 pm

And what is the evidence that he has committed any of those crimes?
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Re: 753 2020

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:11 pm

JO 753 wrote:You need to rethink your definition uv 'evidence'.
I am very satisfied from an intelligence point of view that Trump is being manipulated by the Russians. However good intelligence does not have to comply with the laws of evidence to allow for a court prosecution.

To end this Trump style presidency ever happening again, the matter must be taken to court with the best evidence under the "best evidence rules". That means we have to wait for the Attorney General's office to prepare the best case.

Additionally, to allow further prosecution of all naughty players, we have to have a firm court case against some of them to allow plea bargain negotiations and that is what we are watching in real time.

I suggest to you that the more important question is what damage can Trump do to distract from the court prosecution case being brought against him? How do we mitigate further damage in this period of time? Can the damage be repaired when Trump gets the boot? Things like this.

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Re: 753 2020

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:35 pm

Austin Harper wrote:And what is the evidence that he has committed any of those crimes?
Years ago when he wasn't running for Pres...he openly bragged about being funded by Russians....and its confirmed as his history of stiffing everyone he dealt with, going bankrupt, and his sunny personality...no Reputable/Western banks were loaning him money. Same with Kushner.

Then he, his family, and everyone he knows, lies at every opportunity about anything Russian.

I don't think Putin is manipulating Trump.............."directly"......... but he is all over him indirectly as in getting Manafort on his team who was a total operative. All kinds of related indirect pro-Russian activities as well all with a pro-busines/family pay off to Trump leaving him thinking he is a good businessman rather than a sock pocket.

I think it will all come out WHILE he is in office. Simple rules to prevent this: "must file" tax returns is a good start. Probably not constitutional....leaving it to the Parties and the People......which is how we got Trump and would again: no standards.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
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Re: 753 2020

Post by JO 753 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:01 am

Austin Harper wrote:And what is the evidence that he has committed any of those crimes?
I think the most convinsing fact iz that Trump knowingly committed an impeachable crime to protect Flynn. He can go to prizon for obstruction, so wuts so much worse that its worth the risk? (in case you are sitting front row sentr staje in the Fox eko chamber - it wuz wen he scooted everybody else out uv the meeting and asked Comey to stop the investigation.)

You shoud also read:
Firefly Fan Forum: The Evidens, wic includez a handy explanation uv the Nooalf version uv the word.
and
Skeptics Society Forum: I See No Evidens
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