"I see no evidens"

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Cadmusteeth » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:09 pm

Talk about a one eighty. But then again, Trump has done those before.

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:41 pm

Tom Palven wrote:The link below is to Australia News explaining why Trump would release ALL of the remaining secret CIA Kennedy murder documents:
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-amer ... 2d0d087110

Oops!


If the Russians did their own investigation to confirm Oswald shot Kennedy, then the records we would like to see are the old Russian KGB records. However, it would seem to me that if the Russians found any conflict in the normal explanation then they would have used that in propaganda against the USA........and that didn't happen.

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:58 pm

Trump slurred his words
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmk6oC2CuT0

Donald Trump Jerusalem speech: Did President slur his words?
http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/lea ... 85e0101def
"Others questioned whether the president was on medication — or if he had dentures that possibly came loose."

I'm guessing tranquillisers, as he is under massive stress, is 71 years old and doesn't drink so he's not used to being a bit fuzzy headed.

"White House says Trump slurred during his speech about Jerusalem because his throat was dry"

"Antidepressants can sometimes cause a wide range of unpleasant side effects, including:
* Dry mouth.
"
https://www.webmd.com/depression/featur ... reatment#1

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:21 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:The link below is to Australia News explaining why Trump would release ALL of the remaining secret CIA Kennedy murder documents:
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-amer ... 2d0d087110

Oops!


If the Russians did their own investigation to confirm Oswald shot Kennedy, then the records we would like to see are the old Russian KGB records. However, it would seem to me that if the Russians found any conflict in the normal explanation then they would have used that in propaganda against the USA........and that didn't happen.


Matt,
I asked in my post of Nov. 19, 9:46 am if you are familiar with Operation Mockingbird, and you still haven't replied.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

How about a reply and some kind of effort to connect the dots I laid out? Are those dots totally irrelevant to today's world situation? Are the Mueller antics the only significant game in town?

Are you stonewalling? Cat got your tongue?

The exposure of Operation Mockingbird showed that the CIA had been operating within the US to influence US media for decades, and it makes one wonder just how much effort the CIA public relations department has made in order to keep the CIA and Mossad off the Wikipedia list of secret police agencies which has Bahrain and China on the list; that is, it actually seems more damning that the CIA is not on the list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... anizations

With Operation Mockingbird in mind, Matt, can we CONNECT THESE DOTS?
. On March 12, 2013 James Clapper, as head of all 17 secretive policing agencies, testified under oath before Congress that the CIA handmaiden, the NSA, did not collect information on “a single US citizen.”

. Two months later Edward Snowden released Top Secret documents detailing that the NSA spied on over 120 million US citizens.

. US Senator Lindsey Graham expressed shock that the secret police collected information on him and that he could not obtain the information they had gathered.
http://thehill.com/policy/national-secu ... ing-debate

. A federal court ordered that the remaining undisclosed Kennedy murder documents be released on Oct. 26, 2017, 54 years after the event, with only the US President allowed to block the release of any documents. Trump said that he wanted to release the remaining thousands of pages of documents, but that the CIA refused and that he “had no choice” in the matter.

Matt, if Snowden hadn’t released the top secret NSA documents, do you think that we would be aware of NSA spying on US citizens today?
Would we know after 54 years?

Do we really know whether the secret police spy on US citizens now?

Maybe it really doesn't matter, but do you think that the US has the kind of government that Washington, Jefferson, and Madison had in mind?
Last edited by Tom Palven on Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:40 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:32 am

I thought I posted this two hours ago..............out of time? NSA???

Tom Palven wrote: Do we really know whether the secret police spies on US citizens now?
Secret Police? You mean Google, Twitter, FacedBook, Amazaon etc....all with direct contracts with US.Gov for info??? What do you think all the "Black Budgets" are for in the various agencies?

Tom Palven wrote: Maybe it really doesn't matter, but do you think that the US has the kind of government that Washington, Jefferson, and Madison had in mind?


Washington, Jefferson, and Madison did not have the type of government they had in mind. They all thought people would act in accordance with the Constitution. First election brought the first two party contest and its been in the mud ever since.

btw: if anyone should know: How come there is hardly a mention/study/reference to the First Congress and President of the USA under the Articles of Confederation? Its almost like a Supreme Court ruling that cannot be relied on or quoted because everyone knows the fix was in?????
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:53 am

Tom Palven wrote: Matt, I asked in my post of Nov. 19, 9:46 am if you are familiar with Operation Mockingbird, and you still haven't replied.
Not only am I familiar with USA, Soviet and other propaganda I actually linked you to overt CIA propaganda and Radio Free Europe. I also commented on news restrictions and UK "D -notices". You didn't comment.

Tom Palven wrote: How about a reply and some kind of effort to connect the dots I laid out?
I connect many many dots over the years. It was the Iranian IPIS propaganda that brought me to this forum to look at holocaust deniers and their feeding sources.

Tom Palven wrote: Are the Mueller antics the only significant game in town?
No one said they were and you are still confused between intelligence gathering and making a case for presentation in court. Mueller is preparing for court prosecution.

Tom Palven wrote:The exposure of Operation Mockingbird showed that the CIA had been operating within the US to influence US media for decades,
For {!#%@}'s sake, this was known, way back when the CIA sponsored the cartoon version of Animal Farm in 1954.

I strongly suggest you do some actual research rather than get half stories from wikipedia.

Have you actually read the Snowden document on the "CIA spying on USA citizens" Wasn't it rather the NSA doing massive searches on emails and so on looking for key phrases?

Link us to that document so we can read it together. I'll walk you through it. We do the same thing here with the ASD (Australian Signals Directorate) which co operates Pine Gap with the NSA.

https://www.asd.gov.au/

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:58 am

Last edited by Tom Palven on Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:40 am, edited 4 times in total.

I think Tom just worked out that the NSA monitors against domestic terrorists as well as foreigners. I think he just worked out that the CIA gets most of its signals intelligence from the NSA.

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:49 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Last edited by Tom Palven on Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:40 am, edited 4 times in total.

I think Tom just worked out that the NSA monitors against domestic terrorists as well as foreigners. I think he just worked out that the CIA gets most of its signals intelligence from the NSA.


So, it doesn't bother you in he least that James Clapper, while Director of all the US intelligence agencies, flat-out lied under oath to the US Senate and so on, because, I suppose, the intelligence community works in strange and mysterious ways, its wonders to perform for the greater good?

Machiavelli would endorse that, but its seriously doubtful that Washington, Jefferson, or Madison would buy it, much less the hardened skeptic, Voltaire, or William Pitt the Younger, who said that necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:54 am

Tom Palven wrote:So, it doesn't bother you in he least that James Clapper, .......
No. It bothers me that you didn't answer my question. Have you read the Snowden document on the NSA monitoring domestic electronic communications for phrases indicating terrorist activities. Is that a yes or a no? If yes, you already know you lied when you said it was the CIA that did this.

Secondly when Obama warned Trump about Russian attempts to interfere in the USA elections, was that a good thing or a bad thing? If it was a good thing, how do you think Obama knew that? ( Hint : USA intelligence services)

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:57 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:So, it doesn't bother you in he least that James Clapper, .......
No. It bothers me that you didn't answer my question. Have you read the Snowden document on the NSA monitoring domestic electronic communications for phrases indicating terrorist activities. Is that a yes or a no? If yes, you already know you lied when you said it was the CIA that did this.


No, I didn't read any of the top secret documents that Snowden released, only what was excerpted in Wikipedia that I posted, and I don't think it matters whether these were actually CIA documents or NSA documents, since they are in this together, and both agencies fell under the direction of James Clapper.

Were the secret police monitoring Senator Lindsey Graham for "terrorist activities?"

Not caring about James Clapper lying under oath to the US Senate is like Germans not caring whether the Third Reich was lying to them; sticking their heads into the sand at the very least, or endorsing the activities of the GESTAPO at worst.
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Tom Palven » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:36 am

Spy chief says that changes are in order. How many times have we heard that before?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1E217J
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby JO 753 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:13 pm

Tom Palven wrote:Not caring about James Clapper lying under oath to the US Senate...


Take a close look at who theze Senatorz are.

Do you want them to be in possession uv information that can expoze our spiez, our alliez spiez, how our spy ajensyz operate, teknolojy we hav?

Woud you want the hed uv our intel ajensyz to be required to tell them anything they ask, including detailz uv ongoing espianoj operationz?
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:17 am

Tom Palven wrote: No, I didn't read any of the top secret documents that Snowden released, only what was excerpted in Wikipedia that I posted, and I don't think it matters whether these were actually CIA documents or NSA documents,
The CIA is not allowed to spy on US citizens. The NSA is allowed to spy on USA citizens. Therefore your crap claim that Clapper lied about the CIA when he was talking about the NSA is a complete waste of my time.

Learn your basics first before printing bull-shit on a skeptic forum.


My turn
Answer my previous question Do you think it is a good thing or a bad thing that the CIA warned President Obama that the Russian SVR was trying to influence USA elections?

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:28 am

Tom Palven wrote: Were the secret police monitoring Senator Lindsey Graham for "terrorist activities?"

Are you really that ignorant? Lindsey Graham asked the CIA if he was recorded when the CIA was recording a foreigner Graham was talking to.

You are so confused, you forgot Graham's point was whether the CIA kept recordings of USA citizens who were recorded conversing with foreigners, who the CIA were allowed to record.

At no point did Graham claim he was being recorded for terrorist activities. You completely made that bull-shit up.

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) has yet to receive a response to his formal request that the intelligence community tell him whether his communications were swept up in U.S. spying on foreign targets, he said Tuesday.
http://thehill.com/policy/national-secu ... ing-debate

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:46 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: Were the secret police monitoring Senator Lindsey Graham for "terrorist activities?"

At no point did Graham claim he was being recorded for terrorist activities. You completely made that bull-shit up.


It was a question that I asked, NOT A STATEMENT.

As a lawyer you do a good job of pretending that your case rests entirely upon some obscure point such as "If the gloves don't fit you must acquit," perhaps the oldest legal tactic there is.

You completely ignore the evidence I presented that the NSA and the CIA:

1. BOTH WORK WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE US.

2. THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE CIA, NSA, AND THE OTHER 15 SECRET POLICE AGENCIES IS BLURRED BY THE FACT THAT THEY ALL REPORTED TO JAMES CLAPPER.

3. WE WOULD STILL BE HEARING THAT "THE NSA DOES NOT SPY ON A SINGLE US CITIZEN" IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE RELEASE OF TOP SECRET DOCUMENTS BY EDWARD SNOWDEN.

Either Edward Snowden is a hero or an enemy of the United States. To me he's a hero and James Clapper is a lying scum bag on the order of Joseph Goebbels, and the enemy of eveyrthing good that we were taught in grade school about "the land of the free and the home of the brave."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

I rest my case.
Last edited by Tom Palven on Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby JO 753 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:44 am

Suppoze your naybor wuz planning on making a dioxin bom, Tom. Enuf to make a BIG cloud to cover the entire town. He woud quietly purchase kemicalz and equipment for a few yirz, then after assembling it all, patiantly wait for favorable wether conditionz.

It duznt kill anybody outrite, but many uv the victimz are sure they'd be better off ded. Wen your damajd memory iznt acting up so bad, you wunder why nun uv the law enforsment ajensyz were able to put the puzzle piesez together beforhand. It wuz so obvious! ... At least with 20/20 hindsite. .... If they only knew to look.

The amount uv destructiv power available to practically anybody theze dayz iz incredible. We mostly worry about gunz and explosivez, but therez a terrifyingly wide variety uv kemiklz and prosessez that can mess thingz up BAD.

Big Brother watching duznt bug me much. Big Brother getting lazy and inattentiv duz.
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:55 pm

JO 753 wrote:

Big Brother watching duznt bug me much. Big Brother getting lazy and inattentiv duz.


Imho, JO, one either identifies and respects arrogant, authoritarian, intellectually dishonest control freaks like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Clapper, and Goebbels, who I tend to associate with Rhodes scholars,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodes_Scholarship

or one identifies with the likes of Manning, Assange, John Lennon, and Edward Snowden, who I tend to associate with constructive and compassionate Fulbright scholars, and there isn't much common ground.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulbright_Program

Guess which scholarship Rachel Maddow was awarded.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Maddow
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:41 pm

Tom Palven:

Rhodes vs Fulbright. ((Ha, ha........so often referred to as "Half bright")). I had never made that connection before.

Well done. Thanks..................... and I'll just guess the Fully Bright.
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby TJrandom » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:23 pm

Tom Palven wrote:... 1. BOTH WORK WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE US. ...


True, I assume - but not exclusively within the US, unless you include military bases here in Japan as `within the US`. I believe that Yokota AFB here in Japan is the email and phone call wash-plant for the world.

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:00 am

Tom Palven wrote: Were the secret police monitoring Senator Lindsey Graham for "terrorist activities?"

Matthew Ellard wrote:At no point did Graham claim he was being recorded for terrorist activities. You completely made that bull-shit up.
Tom Palven wrote:It was a question that I asked, NOT A STATEMENT.
You made that entire story up. Lindsey Graham clearly asked if he was recorded in the same conversation when the CIA was recording a foreign citizen. You simply ignored that and pretended Graham was the CIA's target.

Tom Palven wrote:You completely ignore the evidence I presented that the NSA and the CIA:
1. BOTH WORK WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE US.
You dimwit. I told you that. The CIA cannot spy on USA citizens, but can spy on foreign citizens in the USA. That's what Lindsay Graham was saying.

You seem unable to get basic facts right and just make stuff up as you go.

Tom Palven wrote:3. WE WOULD STILL BE HEARING THAT "THE NSA DOES NOT SPY ON A SINGLE US CITIZEN" IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE RELEASE OF TOP SECRET DOCUMENTS BY EDWARD SNOWDEN.
You complete idiot. The NSA states it spies on US citizens in its own public charter. It needs a warrant. You have confused PRISM with court issued warrants.

Tom Palven wrote:I rest my case.
Yep. You haven't got a clue and make stuff up.


My Turn / Stop running away
Tom Palven, who forgot I already answered his question wrote:Are you stonewalling? Cat got your tongue? and you still haven't replied.
Answer my previous question, that you have now avoided three times, Do you think it is a good thing or a bad thing that the CIA warned President Obama that the Russian SVR was trying to influence USA elections?

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:04 am

Tom Palven wrote:... 1. BOTH WORK WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE US. ...
TJrandom wrote:True,

Tom Palven has just worked out that the NSA operates from Fort Meade (USA) and the CIA operates from Langley (USA) , and didn't think anyone else in the world knew this.

I'm going to shock Tom with some top secret information. There a foreign spies in the USA.

I direct Tom's attention to Subsection 2.3(b) of the CIA's Intelligence Approved Activities Order 12333.
https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/privacy-a ... Signed.pdf

My cat knows more that Tom,
:D

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Tom Palven » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
My cat knows more than Tom :D


Cute but not germane.

Let me ask you one final question.

Is unelected apparatchik James Clapper, who as director of all the secret police flat-out lied to our elected representatives in the Senate, worthy of your love and respect, or is Edward Snowden, who exposed Clapper's top secret lies, worthy of love and respect?

Is it too much for me to expect a coherent answer, or just more about your smart pets?
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:23 am

Tom Palven wrote: Let me ask you one final question.
I have now asked you the same question five times and you simply ignore it.

Do you think it is a good thing or a bad thing that the CIA advised President Obama that the Russians were interfering in the USA elections?


Tom Palven wrote:Is it too much for me to expect a coherent answer, or just more about your smart pets?

I have answered that question now three times. You are so ignorant you first thought it was the CIA that collected the meta data from domestic electronic communications. It was the NSA who collected the data as they are allowed to do searching for key phrases concerning domestic terrorism. They are still doing so today using warrants.

James Clapper is not head of the "Secret Police" as you keep claiming. He was director of National Intelligence, with the mandate to do certain things that you don't seem to understand in the most basic form.

James Clapper was not a Russian "apparatchik", as you claim, but appointed by President Obama who warned against Russian interference in the USA's elections. You can't even get your stories straight.
:lol:

Do the Russians pay you to spread their anti-FBi anti-CIA propaganda? Trump is doing a great job, for Russian propaganda, but if you really want to keep helping Trump and Russia, with your incorrect claims....knock yourself out. :lol:

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Tom Palven » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:58 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
James Clapper was not a Russian "apparatchik", as you claim, but appointed by President Obama who warned against Russian interference in the USA's elections. You can't even get your stories straight. [/color]


Show me where I claimed Clapper is a RUSSIAN apparatchik. Obviously, he's a US apparatchik.

But then I wasn't expecting an honest conversation, just false accusations and stonewalling legalisms.
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:41 am

Tom Palven, two posts ago wrote:Is unelected apparatchik James Clapper,
Tom Palven, wrote:Show me where I claimed Clapper is a RUSSIAN apparatchik. Obviously, he's a US apparatchik.
The English work is bureaucrat. A Russian bureaucrat is called an apparatchik as in Menshevik, Bolshevik, Chelovek .

You really don't know anything do you?


I know you can't answer my question which you have ignored six times. You're working to ant-FBI and Anti CIA scripts and talking points aren't you? You just love Trump don't you?

Try to answer the question Tom
Was the CIA informing President Obama, that the Russians were disrupting USA elections a good thing or a bad thing? (Dodge it again and make it obvious you are not allowed to respond) :lol:
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Tom Palven » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:19 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
I know you can't answer my question which you have ignored six times. You're working to ant-FBI and Anti CIA scripts and talking points aren't you? You just love Trump don't you?

Try to answer the question Tom
Was the CIA informing President Obama, that the Russians were disrupting USA elections a good thing or a bad thing? (Dodge it again and make it obvious you are not allowed to respond) :lol:
Putin.jpg


It's not a good thing or a bad thing. Whether it actually occurred or not is a totally irrelevant thing and a false narrative like "If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit."

Hillary won the popular vote.

Now how about answering whether or not James Clapper, Dick Cheney, and Joseph Goebbels are heroes of yours.
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:58 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
I know you can't answer my question which you have ignored six times. You're working to ant-FBI and Anti CIA scripts and talking points aren't you? You just love Trump don't you?

Try to answer the question Tom
Was the CIA informing President Obama, that the Russians were disrupting USA elections a good thing or a bad thing? (Dodge it again and make it obvious you are not allowed to respond) :lol:
Putin.jpg


It's not a good thing or a bad thing. Whether it actually occurred or not is a totally irrelevant thing and a false narrative like "If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit."

Hillary won the popular vote.

Now how about answering whether or not James Clapper, Dick Cheney, and Joseph Goebbels are heroes of yours.

Its a good thing the CIA was competent and knew and reported this activity. Its a bad thing that the Russians were interfering with our election. Both thoughts are entirely relevant and not a false narrative as you suggest which has nothing to do with Hillary winning the popular vote.

How can you get everything wrong?
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Tom Palven » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:53 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
I know you can't answer my question which you have ignored six times. You're working to ant-FBI and Anti CIA scripts and talking points aren't you? You just love Trump don't you?

Try to answer the question Tom
Was the CIA informing President Obama, that the Russians were disrupting USA elections a good thing or a bad thing? (Dodge it again and make it obvious you are not allowed to respond) :lol:
Putin.jpg


It's not a good thing or a bad thing. Whether it actually occurred or not is a totally irrelevant thing and a false narrative like "If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit."

Hillary won the popular vote.

Now how about answering whether or not James Clapper, Dick Cheney, and Joseph Goebbels are heroes of yours.

Its a good thing the CIA was competent and knew and reported this activity. Its a bad thing that the Russians were interfering with our election. Both thoughts are entirely relevant and not a false narrative as you suggest which has nothing to do with Hillary winning the popular vote.

How can you get everything wrong?


You just keep on drinking your Kool-Aid like a good boy and all will be well, and don't you worry about those showers.
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby TJrandom » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:30 pm

Look who is drinking the Koolaid...

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Tom Palven » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:58 pm

TJrandom wrote:Look who is drinking the Koolaid...


Wow!

With that powerful rebuttal, you must be a lawyer like Matt!
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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JO 753
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby JO 753 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:59 pm

Too bad its NOT Koolaid!

If it were like the reverend Jonez poizon Koolaid, the GoP party woud be extinct 20 yirz ago, Prezident Gore woud hav continued and improved upon the Clinton administration'z accomplishments, we'd all be driving electric carz, hav solar powered housez, etc etc etc.

Insted, its Qoolayd, a Dollar store imitation thats been enriched with peepee. So all the dumass 'conservativez' are still alive. They LIKE the taste, and we had Bush jr who supplied enuff to keep them voting but didnt figure out that more iz better! Trump did, so now they are drinking pee strate up, even tho its still in the same brand name container.
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby xouper » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:14 pm

JO 753 wrote:Too bad its NOT Koolaid!

If it were like the reverend Jonez poizon Koolaid, the GoP party woud be extinct 20 yirz ago,


Now you know how I feel about both parties.


JO 753 wrote:. . . we'd all be driving electric carz, hav solar powered housez, etc etc etc.


What's stopping you from converting your Big Green Landbarge (the one with custom stainless steel fender panels) into an electric car? Is 600 HP electric motor not big enough for that?

What's stopping you from converting your house to use solar power? You don't need Trump's permission.

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby JO 753 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:43 pm

Lack uv $.
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby JO 753 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:46 pm

xouper wrote:Now you know how I feel about both parties.


I wundr - If there wuznt a GoP for the Demz to oppoze, woud independents and alternate partyz gain power?
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:12 pm

JO 753 wrote:
xouper wrote:Now you know how I feel about both parties.


I wundr - If there wuznt a GoP for the Demz to oppoze, woud independents and alternate partyz gain power?

How could they not? The party-less voters would still be anti-Dumbo and then decide to vote Alt or stay home.
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:14 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Look who is drinking the Koolaid...


Wow!

With that powerful rebuttal, you must be a lawyer like Matt!

Tom: you ought to recognize fairly easily that YOU MADE the drinking koolaide reference.

No.........I don't drink Koolaide. Why don't you put yours down and answer the direct challenges?
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:43 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:Was the CIA informing President Obama, that the Russians were disrupting USA elections a good thing or a bad thing?
Tom Palven wrote: It's not a good thing or a bad thing.
It was a good thing. In the 80s and 90s the Russians had penetrated the counter soviet desks of the FBI and CIA with Aldrich Ames and Robert Hansen. The 1990s was clearing the USA agencies of SVR (former KGB) spies which had allowed a large influx of "illegals" into the USA during the breakup of the Soviet Union. This is why the Russians returned to their old trick ( The Trust of 1930) to interfering with USA elections and sending false news to the USA, through false flagged friendly channels. That's how intelligence works.

If the CIA didn't tell Obama, who do you think should have? Are you saying it would be better if the President of the USA didn't know of Russian activities on USA territory?

Tom Palven wrote:Whether it actually occurred or not .........
Are you denying Obama warned Trump about Russian interfering in the USA elections? Even your beloved President Trump stated Obama warned him.
Why do you love Russia interfering in the USA, so much?

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:52 pm

Tom Palven wrote: Now how about answering whether or not James Clapper, Dick Cheney, and Joseph Goebbels are heroes of yours.
When did I say these people were my heroes?

As I am known here for fighting foreign countries that use holocaust deniers and holocaust denial propaganda to disrupt Western democratic social harmony, why would you think I think Goebbels is a hero. I have read in extreme detail how Goebbels used propaganda to justify the execution of Jews. We now have a new Skeptic society in Moscow to fight the same activity in Russia. That's one of the reasons I learned to speak Russian and go to Moscow.


(You post on the USA Skeptic Society to get attention? Right?) :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=23257&p=402645&hilit=IPIS#p402645

Russian Skeptic Society
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeptic_Society
Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:58 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: How can you get everything wrong?
Tom is working to scripts and fixed talking points. Ask him a question that is not on his script and he freezes up.

His Lindsey Graham false story was straight from Moscow. In reality, Lindsey Graham's conversation with a foreign agent was recorded by the NSA under a CIA DoJ warrant, because the CIA was recording the foreign agent, as it is allowed to do.
:lol:

I even posted a link to the exact USA legislation that allowed all this to take place.

What's really funny is the FBI is still winding up the Russian illegal networks, who live in the USA,that came here in the 90's. Tom doesn't think they exist. I wonder why Tom is told to say that?
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Re: "I see no evidens"

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:38 pm

There is a severe disconnect going on. Basic facts that all should have are missing or contested.

Deniers. It is actually informing to observe how they cannot be reasoned with. Gums up the works when both sides are entitled to respect and individuals cannot be voted off the island. "We go with the internet we have." (sic)
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