The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

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The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:27 pm

We have reached the nadir, ladies and gentlemen. With President Trump having normalized hatred and bigotry as socially acceptable since the beginning of his campaign, and continuing to the present day, we are now at the point where children believe it is acceptable to murder a child because of his race.

The good news is that they failed. The 8-year-old biracial boy is alive and healing from horrendous rope burns around his neck. And the state AG's office is now handling the case.

The bad news is that the local police department considered the incident a "kids will be kids" situation. And the young boy will carry the emotional trauma of this attack with him for the rest of his life.

Note: The article at the following link includes a graphic photo of the boy's rope burns.
Valley News: Claremont Boy’s Family Seeks Answers After Rope Incident

Here's the Washington Post's coverage:
8-year-old biracial boy was hung from rope by N.H. teenagers because of his race, family says
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:09 pm

I don't think Trump has normalized the racism that does perniciously hold on............ie: it would be worse if he had. RIGHT NOW: Trump and most racists have to at least "say" they are against it. THAT is what is normalized. The Nadir will be be when Trump says Mexico gives us rapists, murderers and drug dealers and does not add that there are some good ones too?

Ha, ha................

I forget now what was first: the racism or the homophobia that turned me off my local Protestant Sunday School.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Aztexan » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:45 pm

C'mon, I'm old enough to remember the rash of black kids beating up little white kids around January of 09. President Obama refused to even acknowledge it was an issue but then he claimed those little white kids and their outraged parents were just as bad for being outraged at the black supremacists and their violent ways.
Anyone who doesn't remember this is willfully ignorant.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby gorgeous » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:37 pm

well nikki ...you're right ...it's all Trump's fault....I remember the Rodney King incident in Calif. many yrs ago...and the white guy pulled out of his truck and beat by black people...Trump existed then...so there you go...
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby xouper » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:20 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:. . . President Trump having normalized hatred and bigotry as socially acceptable since the beginning of his campaign, and continuing to the present day, . . .


:shock:

That's total BS.

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Gord » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:43 am

The mother's name is Cassandra Merlin. With a name like that she's clearly a witch!
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Gord » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:50 am

xouper wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:. . . President Trump having normalized hatred and bigotry as socially acceptable since the beginning of his campaign, and continuing to the present day, . . .


:shock:

That's total BS.

Not total.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tru ... a197cddf08
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... hate-trump
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby xouper » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:09 am

Gord wrote:
xouper wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:. . . President Trump having normalized hatred and bigotry as socially acceptable since the beginning of his campaign, and continuing to the present day, . . .


:shock:

That's total BS.

Not total.


Yes, total.



Sorry but Robert Reich is a biased observer, has an axe to grind, but most importantly his opinions and spin doctoring are hotly disputed.




That does not support the notion that Trump is the cause of "normalized hatred." That article seems to be saying the media are mostly to blame for that by constantly trying to link the alt-right hatred to Trump.

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Dimebag » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:08 am

In some ways I would say that Trump should bear some of the blame for inciting racial tensions, he doesn't exactly project a sense of oneness and acceptance of differences among people, but rather an us and them attitude, especially internationally. He highlights our differences rather than our common goals and values, and to those who don't share the very same goals as him, he offers not an olive branch, but a sarcastic snarky attitude of snobbery. The man is not fit for office and it truly is a sign of the times that he made it in. He brings to the table arrogance, incompetence and ineptitude on world matters, and it seems that the man doesn't think at all before he speaks, and whatever verbal diarrhoea exits his mouth his #sarcasm# rational mind then finds the most weak ways of justifying, or not even justifying but hiding with more lies and flailing.

He truly is a train wreck to behold.

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Aztexan » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:17 am

:yahoo: :amen: :thumbsup: :good: :clapping: :gp: :clap: :ok: :grovel:
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby xouper » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:12 am

Oh my.

I would have thought the fine people on this forum would be immune from becoming afflicted with Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Apparently that's not always the case.

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Dimebag » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:01 am

xouper wrote:Oh my.

I would have thought the fine people on this forum would be immune from becoming afflicted with Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Apparently that's not always the case.

I listen to too much Sam Harris. :-P

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby xouper » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:20 am

Dimebag wrote:I listen to too much Sam Harris. :-P


I nominate that for Best Comeback of the Month Award TM :award:


Seriously, I did not expect that. Well done.

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Gord » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:39 pm

xouper wrote:
Gord wrote:
xouper wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:. . . President Trump having normalized hatred and bigotry as socially acceptable since the beginning of his campaign, and continuing to the present day, . . .


:shock:

That's total BS.

Not total.

Yes, total.

No, not total.



Sorry but Robert Reich is a biased observer, has an axe to grind, but most importantly his opinions and spin doctoring are hotly disputed.




That does not support the notion that Trump is the cause of "normalized hatred." That article seems to be saying the media are mostly to blame for that by constantly trying to link the alt-right hatred to Trump.

I picked those two to show the ends of a spectrum. I wanted to post a few more in between, but I got bored and wandered off.

The second one says it's the Trump Presidency that's normalising hatred and bigotry. And the alt-right hatred is linked to Trump. The media is giving the nazis and racists a platform to spread their message. Usually the media thinks that "sunlight is the best disinfectant", but under the Trump Presidency it seems to be spreading because of the spotlight being shone upon it.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby xouper » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Gord wrote:The second one says it's the Trump Presidency that's normalising hatred and bigotry.


Where does it say that?

The very title of the piece blames it on the media: "How leftwing media focus on far-right groups is helping to normalize hate".

It says that alt-rght groups are "energized" by Trump being elected, but that is not the same thing as saying Trump can be blamed for that.

It also says that the left wing media is at fault for repeatedly using the Nazi label inappropriately, thus in effect "normalizing" it. But again, that cannot be blamed on Trump.


Gord wrote: And the alt-right hatred is linked to Trump.


Linked by the media, not by Trump. Trump does not support or endorse those people.


Gord wrote: The media is giving the nazis and racists a platform to spread their message. Usually the media thinks that "sunlight is the best disinfectant", but under the Trump Presidency it seems to be spreading because of the spotlight being shone upon it.


How is that the fault of the Trump presidency?

Under the Obama presidency, there was the rise of violence and hate speech from groups calling themselves Black Lives Matter. Police officers got killed. Does that mean Obama is to blame for that?

Today there is the rise of violence and hate speech from Antifa. Is that also Trump's fault?

I think not.

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Gord » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:37 pm

xouper wrote:
Gord wrote:The second one says it's the Trump Presidency that's normalising hatred and bigotry.

Where does it say that?

Doesn't it? Damn, I must have posted the wrong link then.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:37 pm

Ha. The more I "try to think" about the issue, what I realize is I am only evaluating the quality of my biased sources.

I don't see a way to sum up the competing narratives to what might be "normal" for the various interests involved.

I'll just say again: its not normalized if you have to apologize for it.......even in a half-hearted transparently untrue way.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:24 am

Not normalized, but Cult of Personality?
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Aztexan » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:46 am

Thanks for reminding me my $&@%#! Twitter account is suspended.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:13 am

xouper wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:. . . President Trump having normalized hatred and bigotry as socially acceptable since the beginning of his campaign, and continuing to the present day, . . .

:shock:

That's total BS.

It's not even remotely BS. What is BS is your genetic fallacy every time someone posts a factual story about Trump. "Oh, that can't be true because the source has a known bias." You know full well that a person with a known bias is perfectly capable of factually reporting what someone else said, and providing a link to prove it. And I'm sure you're familiar with the genetic fallacy, having accused others of falling prey to it. So let's just spike that cannon before you attempt to fire it.

This article is from Fortune, which is owned by Time, Inc., and was published before Joseph Ripp handed over control of Time, Inc. Ripp is a Republican; he donated to Mitt Romney's presidential campaign. Yet he published this story in his magazine, Fortune.
Is Donald Trump Racist? Here’s What the Record Shows

Oh, and before you start in on the author, Michael D'Antonio, perhaps I should mention that his 12+ books have been highly acclaimed by multiple sources, he was awarded a Pulitzer Prize for journalism, he has won the First Amendment Award, and he has written for Newsday, Discover, The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, The Times of London, and Esquire, among others. And he links to his sources right in the article.

And if you've been paying even minor attention, you've seen video after video of Trump spewing racist comments, both before and since he took office.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:41 am

Nikki Nyx wrote: What is BS is your genetic fallacy every time someone posts a factual story about Trump. "Oh, that can't be true because the source has a known bias." You know full well that a person with a known bias is perfectly capable of factually reporting what someone else said, and providing a link to prove it. And I'm sure you're familiar with the genetic fallacy, having accused others of falling prey to it. So let's just spike that cannon before you attempt to fire it.


Good review and ID of the fallacy involved. Ha, ha: I got a bit confused though thinking the genetic label applied to Xouper himself...........but as I constantly note: why not both?? Anyway: just wanted to note "everyone" is up against the same reality I failed to overcome: in politics where "meanness" has become normalized, how do you find/trust a source as being accurate as opposed to biased? Very hard to oppose a claim of bias with ANYTHING from what EVERYONE does accept is a by express function more than a biased source but moreso a propagandistic source...ie: the Whitehouse Briefing Room. With that equation, the biased reporter should always be more credible than the Whitehouse Spokesperson.

But in the main: anyone can claim bias. Its a lazy worthless complaint without the bias being IDENTIFIED and applied to the analysis. Xouper is not lazy, he puts lots of work into spinning a subject off center.

BTW...too late to spike that cannon.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby xouper » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:12 am

Nikki Nyx wrote:
xouper wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:. . . President Trump having normalized hatred and bigotry as socially acceptable since the beginning of his campaign, and continuing to the present day, . . .

:shock:

That's total BS.

It's not even remotely BS. What is BS is your genetic fallacy every time someone posts a factual story about Trump. "Oh, that can't be true because the source has a known bias." You know full well that a person with a known bias is perfectly capable of factually reporting what someone else said, and providing a link to prove it. And I'm sure you're familiar with the genetic fallacy, having accused others of falling prey to it. So let's just spike that cannon before you attempt to fire it.


You are correct, it would be a fallacy if I had attempted to use his bias as an argument, but I did not.

I know full well not to use that fallacy, and so I don't.

That does not mean one cannot make observations about the known biases of any given source.

I did not use his bias to argue that what he said was false. You made that assumption all on your own. Go back and reread what I actually wrote. My comment about his bias was merely intended as an observation to be careful about taking his word without checking it.

And in fact, when I did check it, there are many other interpretations that disagree with his interpretations, which is why I said his opinions are hotly disputed. They were not disputed because he is biased, they are disputed based on the facts.

As for the rest of your arguments, opinions, interpretations, and perceptions about Trump, I will simply say I do not agree. I have seen more than enough hard evidence that sufficiently contradicts the stuff you cited (and all the stuff you haven't yet cited).

We could easily spend the next four years arguing this point, citing sources, etc, and getting nowhere.

I am guessing that you and I will never agree on this issue.

I guess it all depends on what you want to spend your time doing. I'd prefer to just disagree and move on. Not because I cannot support my position. I can. But there are better uses of our time than wasting it on this dispute.

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:15 am

xouper wrote: My comment about his bias was merely intended as an observation to be careful about taking his word without checking it.

Why not mention his haircut?
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby xouper » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:43 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Why not mention his haircut?


OK. sure.

Image

The man has goofy looking hair. :P

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:14 am

I'm growing a Fu Man Chu moustache for the first time in my life. fun to play with, twirl around. Kinda inhibits me from going out in public though. You either make a statement with such activities, or go with the flow..............
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby KevinLevites » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:51 pm

I wish I could understand this resurgence of bigotry after all the progress made in the last fifty years.

I belive this is because it's easier to blame a scapegoat than to actually fix a problem. Poverty is a problem created by Jewish bankers instead of a problem from lack of education, for example.

The drug problem is created by Mexicans instead of a side-effect of poverty and poor policing and inadequate access to medical care.

And so on.

Didn't the Holocaust teach us anything?

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:32 pm

KevinLevites wrote:I wish I could understand this resurgence of bigotry after all the progress made in the last fifty years.

I belive this is because it's easier to blame a scapegoat .................


.................which you then demonstrate. I assume on purpose. Trying to make bigots look bad? No need.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:55 pm

xouper wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:It's not even remotely BS. What is BS is your genetic fallacy every time someone posts a factual story about Trump. "Oh, that can't be true because the source has a known bias." You know full well that a person with a known bias is perfectly capable of factually reporting what someone else said, and providing a link to prove it. And I'm sure you're familiar with the genetic fallacy, having accused others of falling prey to it. So let's just spike that cannon before you attempt to fire it.
You are correct, it would be a fallacy if I had attempted to use his bias as an argument, but I did not.
You have used it multiple times in this thread, so I headed you off at the pass.

xouper wrote:As for the rest of your arguments, opinions, interpretations, and perceptions about Trump, I will simply say I do not agree. I have seen more than enough hard evidence that sufficiently contradicts the stuff you cited (and all the stuff you haven't yet cited).
When statements and actions have been recorded on video and social media, it's not a matter or argument, opinion, interpretation, or perception. Trump's racist statements and actions speak for themselves.

I am curious about one thing: What's your dog in this fight? You live in [redacted] do you not?
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:23 pm

KevinLevites wrote:I wish I could understand this resurgence of bigotry after all the progress made in the last fifty years.

I belive this is because it's easier to blame a scapegoat than to actually fix a problem. Poverty is a problem created by Jewish bankers instead of a problem from lack of education, for example.

The drug problem is created by Mexicans instead of a side-effect of poverty and poor policing and inadequate access to medical care.

And so on.

Didn't the Holocaust teach us anything?


GADDDDDDD!!! Thanks for the congrats, but I was in a mood that caused me to read your post without noting the sarcasm WHICH IS VERY EVIDENT. Then I got a post wrong in response to Nikki. Is this what "The Deluge is all about? ..... No... just my own personal dip. Hate it, when that happens.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:34 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
KevinLevites wrote:I wish I could understand this resurgence of bigotry after all the progress made in the last fifty years.

I belive this is because it's easier to blame a scapegoat than to actually fix a problem. Poverty is a problem created by Jewish bankers instead of a problem from lack of education, for example.

The drug problem is created by Mexicans instead of a side-effect of poverty and poor policing and inadequate access to medical care.

And so on.

Didn't the Holocaust teach us anything?


GADDDDDDD!!! Thanks for the congrats, but I was in a mood that caused me to read your post without noting the sarcasm WHICH IS VERY EVIDENT. Then I got a post wrong in response to Nikki. Is this what "The Deluge is all about? ..... No... just my own personal dip. Hate it, when that happens.
I assumed you were being sarcastic in response to Kevin's sarcasm.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:49 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote: I assumed you were being sarcastic in response to Kevin's sarcasm.

Sadly no. You have your coffee, I have my "late nights." It is interesting then how we can "read into" what is there and arrive at opposite results from opposite reads? But as with the reference post, some sarcasm is certainly obvious...by ITS STRUCTURE, not be reading in.

I just recently had a post to me that was "very nice".... unless it was meant sarcastically. What to do? I took it at face value, no reading in. Turned out, it was meant to be nice. Course, a few months back I was "played" for 2 weeks before the poster proclaimed he was being sarcastic.

i believe all errors belong to those who expect anyone to read sarcasm or humor or some other context into the situation other than the plain meaning of what is in front of us on the page. I say again: Kevins sarcasm was self evident. My bias again in action. On balance... it works more often than not, but requires close attention.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby xouper » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:05 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
xouper wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:It's not even remotely BS. What is BS is your genetic fallacy every time someone posts a factual story about Trump. "Oh, that can't be true because the source has a known bias." You know full well that a person with a known bias is perfectly capable of factually reporting what someone else said, and providing a link to prove it. And I'm sure you're familiar with the genetic fallacy, having accused others of falling prey to it. So let's just spike that cannon before you attempt to fire it.
You are correct, it would be a fallacy if I had attempted to use his bias as an argument, but I did not.
You have used it multiple times in this thread, so I headed you off at the pass.


It is not my intention to use that fallacy. Ever.

If it seems that I have, then you have misinterpreted my words, and it would be preferable to ask for clarification instead of assuming I meant something I did not mean.


Nikki Nyx wrote:
xouper wrote:As for the rest of your arguments, opinions, interpretations, and perceptions about Trump, I will simply say I do not agree. I have seen more than enough hard evidence that sufficiently contradicts the stuff you cited (and all the stuff you haven't yet cited).
When statements and actions have been recorded on video and social media, it's not a matter or argument, opinion, interpretation, or perception. Trump's racist statements and actions speak for themselves.


The interpretations of what his words imply about his character is what is in dispute. Some people interpret his words as racist, etc, and others do not. In that sense Trump is a Rorschach Test.

Just because some people interpret certain utterances as racist, does not mean the person is racist. There is plenty of very credible evidence that Trump is not a racist, etc.


Nikki Nyx wrote:I am curious about one thing: What's your dog in this fight?


I am an American citizen with an American passport and I am registered to vote in American elections.

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:14 pm

xouper wrote: Just because some people interpret certain utterances as racist, does not mean the person is racist. There is plenty of very credible evidence that Trump is not a racist, etc.

If sometimes a person is a racist while at other times they are not, are they a racist or not?
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby xouper » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:20 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
xouper wrote: Just because some people interpret certain utterances as racist, does not mean the person is racist. There is plenty of very credible evidence that Trump is not a racist, etc.

If sometimes a person is a racist while at other times they are not, are they a racist or not?


Your question includes the fallacy called "begging the question."

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:47 pm

xouper wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
xouper wrote: Just because some people interpret certain utterances as racist, does not mean the person is racist. There is plenty of very credible evidence that Trump is not a racist, etc.

If sometimes a person is a racist while at other times they are not, are they a racist or not?


Your question includes the fallacy called "begging the question."

No.........it doesn't.

Are you failing at language or logic?

.........To beg the question, the premise must be obvious. Impossible in an either/or format.

Try again.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby xouper » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:15 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
xouper wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
xouper wrote: Just because some people interpret certain utterances as racist, does not mean the person is racist. There is plenty of very credible evidence that Trump is not a racist, etc.

If sometimes a person is a racist while at other times they are not, are they a racist or not?


Your question includes the fallacy called "begging the question."

No.........it doesn't.

Are you failing at language or logic?

.........To beg the question, the premise must be obvious. Impossible in an either/or format.

Try again.


OK. Let's try again.

I reject your (implied) claim that Trump is "sometimes a racist".

If that is not your claim, then your question has no relevance to the current conversation.

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:37 pm

You remind me of the judge that determined that the cop who said he was going to kill that n______ showed no premeditation when shooting the guy dead 10 minutes later.

I did not know you were so judicious. But .... like the judge .... you can only think like that with armed guards around to protect you from your own BS.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby xouper » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:42 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:You remind me of the judge that determined that the cop who said he was going to kill that n______ showed no premeditation when shooting the guy dead 10 minutes later.

I did not know you were so judicious. But .... like the judge .... you can only think like that with armed guards around to protect you from your own BS.


Making false accusations about me personally is uncalled for, bobbo.

Making disparaging remarks about me personally does not refute my assertions. All it does is make you look petty.

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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:51 pm

Your mastery of the English language has a few holes. What your sophistry reminds me of is not an accusation against you "per se." The sting you feel is your own recognition of what you look like.

And yes.........if you want to take the position that nothing Trump has said is racist...... you reap what you sew.
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Re: The Consequences of Normalizing Racism

Postby xouper » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:59 pm

Let the record show bobbo is (yet again) violating the rules and guidelines of this forum by continuing to attack me personally.


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