Shermer on SIO

Introduce yourselves here, get to know everyone else. Kick back and relax.
User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Shermer on SIO

Postby fromthehills » Mon May 15, 2017 7:39 pm

http://seriouspod.com/


Good discussion.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10182
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon May 15, 2017 7:45 pm

Its an audio pod cast.... so you have to listen to the whole thing to find points of interest if any.

I SO MUCH MORE prefer a transcript....or a time stamp for different subjects or the links referenced in the lead in?

I don't think I'm alone.

But .... if you love Shermer, and quite a few do...worth the listen I suppose. You Tube lectures/debates have the same limitations, but you get to "see" them.

OH!!---so you listened. Would be worthwhile to us if you timestamped what you thought was notable?

I know.........its work.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby fromthehills » Mon May 15, 2017 7:52 pm

Probably going to listen again before I comment.

I like listening to podcasts, versus transcript, because I'm mostly moving and working with my hands.

Dr. Shermer, I'm neutral, but I'm probably a Skeptic because I read his book 15 years ago, or so.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10182
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon May 15, 2017 8:34 pm

Yep. I like books on tape in the car myself. Music too. Better than Rush Linbaugh?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby fromthehills » Mon May 15, 2017 8:42 pm

Well, I'd recommend SIO, and several other podcasts above the Rush. :lol:

Thomas is more Liberal than I am, but I like him quite a bit. He does give a lot of thought into things, and has made me see see some errors in my thinking, as folks have here over the years.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10182
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon May 15, 2017 10:49 pm

FTH: you say.... "and has made me see see some errors in my thinking, ". There is nothing more rewarding than experiencing that. When and how and why we change our way of thinking is usually too gradual to notice. That last "hard core" experience I had of that was about 2-3-4 talks in a row featuring Noam Chomsky responding to very penetrating agressive questions by challenging their unstated premises. Perhaps more recently is a change in the way I view capitalism vis a vis the stock market and how its all one big Ponzi Scheme and not really a rational way to raise capital. From that, gets revealed all kinds of popular fraud.

If they come to mind............. what did you change your mind on?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby fromthehills » Mon May 15, 2017 11:28 pm

Hmm...

7 years ago, or about, just for example, I'd attack the person instead of the argument. I realize it's intuectually lazy to do that. I understand now, that doing the work means one needs to have the better argument, and if one doesn't, then maybe we need to reflect on our own argument. Shermer actually touches on this in this interview.

Some socialist ideas make far more sense to me now, even though I resist some of it too. Hard to have worked out of poverty the way I have, and fully embrace the idea that others can't. But I see it clearly now. I've got privileges that others don't, and I actually want to help people. I was pretty certain that I was Libertarian in 09-10. Perhaps some things I was right about, and some wrong, but the real point is that that's the position to take, and the position not to take is being certain.

I'm still a gun enthusiast, and I probably won't change in that, but perhaps that's a sacred cow. and I see that. But my favorite thing to do is go out into my regular safe shooting area and shoot guns and hit targets. I do know that the arguments against my hobby haven't persuaded me, but I have come out of multiple arguments here with a better perspective on the fears. And I understand them.

This forum made me study logical fallacies, and how to source my claims. When one has to give links to back ones BS, one tends to realize that BS. Then, hopefully, one tries to cut that BS.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10182
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon May 15, 2017 11:42 pm

Everyone of those is a winner. Congrats.

Absolute bans on gun ownership and use are rational but rarely made. I have argued that position only from the extension of logic position or to make a simple rule that is easy to enforce.

Short of absolute bans..... are there any "reasonable restrictions" that you object to?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby fromthehills » Tue May 16, 2017 12:29 am

Argh. {!#%@} had a long reply that disappeared.

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby fromthehills » Tue May 16, 2017 12:30 am

Gimme a sec

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby fromthehills » Tue May 16, 2017 12:36 am

Essentially, I don't like the bad reasons for gun control, when good reasons are there. Goddamnit, I spent time on a reply, goddamn apple.

My state, Colorado has a magizine limit. 15 rds. It's based on the belief that you shoot your high capacity, then have to buy the lower Rd mags after. It's like saying once you run out of gas, you have to buy the new electric car.

My opinions on this are all over this forum. We can go into it more, as a calm discussion, maybe in the gun section. I'm just not willing to be called the reason Mass shootings happen, again

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26360
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue May 16, 2017 12:37 am

fromthehills wrote:Some socialist ideas make far more sense to me now, even though I resist some of it too. .

Good on you. That's what I like to hear.....a person who looks at the policies and makes a decision based on policies.

I don't know how we slipped backwards, around the world and returned to the cult of personality "Trump did this" "Clinton did that". "Macron is owned by banks" and so on.
:D

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10182
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 16, 2017 12:49 am

I lose posts quite often but almost ALWAYS can pull them up in my History with the go back button? ymmv.

I thought mag size limits was to require reloading giving the citizens a change to rush the perp? haven't heard of your issue before. I support mag size limits....seems like minimum interference of legitimate interests to protect against illegal activities.

I'm not looking for a gun discussion........ its just the most contentious of the issues you mentioned.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Nobrot
Poster
Posts: 353
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:59 pm

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby Nobrot » Tue May 16, 2017 1:43 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:...
I thought mag size limits was to require reloading giving the citizens a change to rush the perp? ...

So I count the number of deafening bangs then take him out with the glass ashtray?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10182
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 16, 2017 2:16 am

I think you wait to see him fumbling with the mag. Watch out though.... could be a trick.

What ya gonna do? Just hide and wait?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Nobrot
Poster
Posts: 353
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:59 pm

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby Nobrot » Tue May 16, 2017 2:26 am

If I can see the assassin fumbling with an empty magazine, then who the {!#%@} has he been shooting at?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10182
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 16, 2017 2:53 am

Nobrot.....many of the instances have involved shooting at dozens if not 100's of people. Stopping a reloading multiple times. Several assassins taken down exactly when they were reloading.

they shoot, they miss, they reload. when would you attack "if you decided to do so?"
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby fromthehills » Tue May 16, 2017 2:59 am

Anyhow, the discussion between Shermer and Thomas Smith is mostly about freedom of speech issues. I have to say, my opinion lies in between their opinions. Probably leaning more towards Shermers, in a sense, but probably more persuaded by Thomas's. When my opinion lies on the side of someone that doesn't quite have the facts, I have to steer towards the facts.

The discussion is essentially about college campus speech issues. Thomas's argument shows that not only is the hype over people like Anne Coulter being denied a stage on campus embellished, there's a possibility that the protests for such public speeches are possibly staged. Which I found interesting.

There is plenty more that goes into race and transgender issues, but I won't do the show justice by tapping away at my iPad, hoping not to lose {!#%@} again.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10182
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 16, 2017 3:51 am

I haven't followed those issues too closely this go around. I thought it was a given that the protests were staged? You know: some protest on campus from students but the turmoil and threat being caused by outside agitators?

Anyhoo.......I went to a commuter school college and it was fun. violent protests in Berkeley because "everybody cared." At my school a day later, we had all the same speakers and no one cared. ha, ha.

"Caring People." Pros and cons to all we do.

Free Speech.....I don't know.........who DOES pay for all the police protection.... if any??? Should a for profit rable rouser get free Police Protection?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby fromthehills » Tue May 16, 2017 1:01 pm

To be honest, if I were in charge of such things, I'd probably say: sure, come speak, but I'm not paying for the protection. That's essentially what Berkeley did, so the Republican group is suing, saying free speech was violated. Because they would have to put up $5k for security.

Republicans always seem to want it both ways. If it were lefties wanting the University to pay for security, pugs would cry fowl, calling it looking for a handout. But they have to pay, and they call it taking away their rights.

When soft ass lefties want trigger warnings and safe spaces, pugs say that's against free speech. But when a theater group stops and voices concerns to Pence-le dick, Trump says the theater should be a safe space.. boo {!#%@} hoo

Trigger warning: I don't give trigger warnings. :D

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby fromthehills » Tue May 16, 2017 1:08 pm

Another example, in breaking news. "Lock her up!" chants during campaign for Clintons emails, possibly mishandling classified information. Trump just flat out told the Russians ambassador classified {!#%@}, basically botching an entire operation.

{!#%@}.... I could crash the server if I wrote that as many times as I want to.

User avatar
fromthehills
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9890
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:01 am
Location: Woostone

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby fromthehills » Tue May 16, 2017 1:12 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
fromthehills wrote:Some socialist ideas make far more sense to me now, even though I resist some of it too. .

Good on you. That's what I like to hear.....a person who looks at the policies and makes a decision based on policies.

I don't know how we slipped backwards, around the world and returned to the cult of personality "Trump did this" "Clinton did that". "Macron is owned by banks" and so on.
:D


Matthew, this same guy from the podcast, Thomas Smith, also does a podcast with a lawyer, mainly on Constitutional law, called Opening Arguments that you may find interesting. Plus they're pretty funny.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26360
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue May 16, 2017 11:39 pm

fromthehills wrote:Matthew, this same guy from the podcast, Thomas Smith, also does a podcast with a lawyer, mainly on Constitutional law, called Opening Arguments that you may find interesting. Plus they're pretty funny.


I love "funny but true" law stories and the historical English courts are a gold mine for great humour.

I know a little bit about USA tax law but USA Constitutional Law is way beyond my skill level. I think you have to know US history to fully understand USA Constitutional law and the older I grow, the more I understand how complex USA history is and how little I know about it. I'm still amazed that 13 little States on the east coast somehow took over the entire USA continent.
:D

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10182
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed May 17, 2017 2:36 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: I'm still amazed that 13 little States on the east coast somehow took over the entire USA continent.

I thought it was Europeans looking for Beaver pelts..... and a fast way to China?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Tom Palven
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4725
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby Tom Palven » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:26 pm

One might think that college campuses should be the last place to restrict free speech, whether for Anne Coulter or this lady:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/colleg ... spartanntp
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2042
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: Shermer on SIO

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:45 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
fromthehills wrote:Some socialist ideas make far more sense to me now, even though I resist some of it too. .

Good on you. That's what I like to hear.....a person who looks at the policies and makes a decision based on policies.

I don't know how we slipped backwards, around the world and returned to the cult of personality "Trump did this" "Clinton did that". "Macron is owned by banks" and so on.
:D

To be fair, "Clinton did that" is a fair indication of what Clinton will do, especially when "Clinton did that" refers to policies, actions, and votes while in office. "Clinton said that while on the campaign trail" is another matter entirely.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein


Return to “The Nexus”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest