Scientists erred. But never mind.....

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nmblum88
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Scientists erred. But never mind.....

Postby nmblum88 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:10 pm

..... the correction is captivating, and now we are one (not necessarily happy) family:
From the New York Times, Science Section:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/magazine/neanderthals-were-people-too.html?ribbon-ad-idx=5&rref=scien
NMB

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Nobrot
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Re: Scientists erred. But never mind.....

Postby Nobrot » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:52 pm

Emotive language is strong with this one.

Suddenly, it struck me — though it should have earlier — that what we were looking at were the remnants of a single event: a specific fire, on a specific night, made by specific Neanderthals. Maybe this won’t sound that profound, but it snapped that prehistoric abstraction into focus. This wasn’t just a “hearth,” I realized; it was a campfire.


Neanderthals buried their dead. They made jewelry and specialized tools. They made ocher and other pigments, perhaps to paint their faces or bodies — evidence of a “symbolically mediated worldview,”


I've no idea what a symbolically mediated worldview is but I know what begging the question is.

I've had a quick rake through his other NYT articles and they are all interminably long and equally uninspiring, If they're paying this bloke by word count he must be minted.

I suspish an anti science bent in his writings but I can't find the energy to go raking around, I've had enough of Mr Jon Mooallen. Besides I have more Gin to drink, meatballs to scratch and a cat to cook.

Don't click this!
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/magaz ... wanted=all

nmblum88
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Re: Scientists erred. But never mind.....

Postby nmblum88 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:11 pm

Nobrot wrote:Emotive language is strong with this one.

Suddenly, it struck me — though it should have earlier — that what we were looking at were the remnants of a single event: a specific fire, on a specific night, made by specific Neanderthals. Maybe this won’t sound that profound, but it snapped that prehistoric abstraction into focus. This wasn’t just a “hearth,” I realized; it was a campfire.


Neanderthals buried their dead. They made jewelry and specialized tools. They made ocher and other pigments, perhaps to paint their faces or bodies — evidence of a “symbolically mediated worldview,”


I've no idea what a symbolically mediated worldview is but I know what begging the question is.

I've had a quick rake through his other NYT articles and they are all interminably long and equally uninspiring, If they're paying this bloke by word count he must be minted.

I suspish an anti science bent in his writings but I can't find the energy to go raking around, I've had enough of Mr Jon Mooallen. Besides I have more Gin to drink, meatballs that need scratching and a cat that need cooking

Don't click this!
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/magaz ... wanted=all



Whatever.

NMB

P.S. "The world is so full of a number of things/I'm sure we should all be as happy as kings."

NMB

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Re: Scientists erred. But never mind.....

Postby Poodle » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:16 pm

I enjoyed the article, Norma, although we have known this for some time now. In any case (picture my finger wagging) palaeoanthropologists may have erred, but 'scientists' is a bit of a loose term in this field.

nmblum88
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Re: Scientists erred. But never mind.....

Postby nmblum88 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:39 pm

Poodle wrote:I enjoyed the article, Norma, although we have known this for some time now. In any case (picture my finger wagging) palaeoanthropologists may have erred, but 'scientists' is a bit of a loose term in this field.

Clearly Poodle, when it comes to science, you are a purist.
There is no arguing with that.....
However, the point is that it is good to remember that much of what we (amateurs) both take for granted and repeat as gospel to others (hoping against odds that they know even less than we do) is conjecture rather than incontrovertible fact.
And isn't that a good thing?
That inquiry never ceases?
And that misconceptions can always be corrected as more information (and more "science") becomes available?
Best regards,
Norma

P.S. And of course I'm delighted that you enjoyed the article, because my entire life is based on the surmise that the more things one enjoys, leads to even more things to be enjoyed....
Which means, I think, that when one comes across something that piques one's interest... whether faulty or otherwise...the experience COULD lead to a life long passion....a yard full of bee-hives perhaps.. or .a garden full of cacti, for instance...... or artichoke plants that stubbornly refuse to produce.
And as a matter of fact that's how I discovered boys: I read an article (entirely erroneous based on information available in 1938) in one of my father's journals....about the differences in development between prepubescent boys and adolescent girls!!!

Aha!! The start if a career (of sorts),
How about you?
Anything grievously third class, that so intrigued you that it became a life-long pursuit?

NMB
P.P.S. Forgive me Poodle...I prefer NOT to picture your finger wagging.
Do I get a second choice?
NMB

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Re: Scientists erred. But never mind.....

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:42 am

That neanderthals were close cousins, so close we interbred, has been known for some time. Proof beyond doubt with dna analysis. They do quite well in wrestling sports and as tacklers and blockers. But...they were or weren't people as you may variously define people. If you can't define them in or out of our family.... then you are no scientist: everything proceeding by definition.

I don't see the begged question though. More definitions.
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OlegTheBatty
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Re: Scientists erred. But never mind.....

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:49 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:That neanderthals were close cousins, so close we interbred, has been known for some time. Proof beyond doubt with dna analysis.

Not exactly. The evidence is of a statistical nature re gene groupings and is considered suggestive rather than definitive by many; and as overanalyzing by others. The first story got better press than the dissensions.


They do quite well in wrestling sports and as tacklers and blockers.


Soon we get to see how well one does as POTUS.

But...they were or weren't people as you may variously define people. If you can't define them in or out of our family.... then you are no scientist: everything proceeding by definition.

I don't see the begged question though. More definitions.


Yes, definitions. And perception. There are still many White people who do not consider Black people to be fully human.
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Re: Scientists erred. But never mind.....

Postby Gord » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:01 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
They do quite well in wrestling sports and as tacklers and blockers.

Soon we get to see how well one does as POTUS.

Orangutans are not Neanderthals.
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Re: Scientists erred. But never mind.....

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:09 am

Thanks Oleg. I read they had the Neanderthal dna clumps down to very specifc coding groups....it didn't "sound like" a statistical analysis but rather quite specific. Oh those scientists..... they study some subject their whole lives and think they know more than I do after reading their abstracts.

My tv has shown Neanderthals always as white boys.... or is that just how mulatto looks off snow?

Good one Gord. Orangs do seem like good people to me..... as long as the fruit holds out.
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Re: Scientists erred. But never mind.....

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:24 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Thanks Oleg. I read they had the Neanderthal dna clumps down to very specifc coding groups....it didn't "sound like" a statistical analysis but rather quite specific. Oh those scientists..... they study some subject their whole lives and think they know more than I do after reading their abstracts.

They are specific, but they are old enough to have come from a common ancestor. That is where the statistical analysis brings different results. It is not sufficiently rigorous to pinpoint exactly how long ago a mutation occurred.

The disagreement is in the way the data is being analyzed, and in how uncertainty is analyzed. Another way of describing the controversy is that it is in the analysis of the size of the error bars.

My tv has shown Neanderthals always as white boys.... or is that just how mulatto looks off snow?


We might assume that Neanderthals were pale skinned because Nordic humans are. OTOH, Inuit are not particularly pale, so it really is any one's guess. Besides, Neanderthals were not H. sapiens.

Good one Gord. Orangs do seem like good people to me..... as long as the fruit holds out.


No self-respecting Orang would associate with the Trump administration.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Scientists erred. But never mind.....

Postby Major Malfunction » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:03 am

So Homo!!!
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