A dying forum

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JO 753
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A dying forum

Postby JO 753 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:17 am

http://theinfinityprogram.com/index.php Iz drying up.

Too bad, kuz its very well manajd and haz the best forum software. If youre looking for another place to espous your opinionz you coudnt ask for a better place, except for the drying up part.

I'v never been on JREF, but I hear that it haz problemz, including being too crowded. I know many uv you are there, so Infinity iz a good alternativ.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Flash » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:39 am

This forum will die too if members keep hitting the ignore button too often or refuse to participate in discussions just because the views expressed are not to their liking. Ostracizing members for their views is not a good way to keep a forum alive.

Norma knows this and that's why she never puts anybody on ignore and answers even the most objectionable posts. For that she often gets either ignored or viciously attacked with the kernel of her argument left unanswered.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby JO 753 » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:40 am

Plenty uv poor behaviour here, but I dont think its going to kill the forum.

I think Norma givez at least az much greif az she dishez out. She likes to fite!
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Gord » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:14 am

Flash wrote:Ostracizing members for their views is not a good way to keep a forum alive.

Sez you! :bee:
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Aztexan » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:38 pm

This is a sentence. tHi5 iz a seN+3nce oN drUgs!!!

"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty"--sign seen at Occupy Wall St. protest.

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Re: A dying forum

Postby JO 753 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:45 am

:lol:

If Pyrro decided to monetize this plase, he coud add a byooty tips catagory & make a fortune.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Scott Mayers » Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:09 am

Flash wrote:This forum will die too if members keep hitting the ignore button too often or refuse to participate in discussions just because the views expressed are not to their liking. Ostracizing members for their views is not a good way to keep a forum alive.

Norma knows this and that's why she never puts anybody on ignore and answers even the most objectionable posts. For that she often gets either ignored or viciously attacked with the kernel of her argument left unanswered.

I've already commented on the way the ignore functions derogatorily before and completely agree that this acts to also ostracize. I come here less often since less people seem to be bothering to respond. If this is due to some who use such options, then I too won't be bothering to come here eventually. It's sad though. It indicates that the function of such behaviors will only naturally end the usefulness of such forums as well as other actual sincere exchanges of communication. This is because these 'forums' only become disguised as places of open exchanges but are really intent on (1) Dictating some intended message(s) and (2) Collecting information on those who use them for undetermined reasons.

And now, the complexity of any one individual to be unable to appropriately assure that anything they do online is both secure as well as sincere is too much for anyone to handle. Instead, we are forced to give up trying. And I see that this is being done both intentionally and unintentionally. But since the ones who have the intentional purposes have the money behind them, the Internet as a whole will reduce to being completely unreliable as a means to effectively communicate unless you are fitting in with the expectations of these specific intentions by those who can afford to maintain the Internet: ISPs [Internet gateways], specific political interests [extreme capitalist-favored ideologies] and complete annihilation of any 'true' or actual skepticism.

I am seriously considering abandoning my Internet services but am finding it difficult in light of how some of its services have become so ubiquitously necessary in order to even function on a local level without. Even all our major alternate traditional media have been successfully consolidated in actual ownership controls and we can't trust any of them now (TV/printed publications/phone services). As an example, did anyone notice how ALL television channels are beginning to feature the same exact programs?

A few weeks back, on a Friday, I saw a listing on my PVR/TVmodem for a Celebrity cancer program in which absolutely ALL channels were airing the same thing at the same time. I called my cable company and the service personel who answered even thought this odd. We checked each channel independently but each of their perspective logos were displayed differently indicating that all networks were working in sync, OR (equally possible, though less probable) that our master control from our cable provider was doing this from their end.

I have lost complete faith in any possible way for the people to have any real communication freedoms now. And while I hate to sound like a 'conspiracy theorist' even the way this is being touted as delusional thinking (even if most of it is), it makes us reasonably question whether even the ubiquitous promotional attempts to dismiss such 'theorists' could be in effect an intentional conspiracy in and of itself meant to dissuade us from even sincere inquiries.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Gord » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:02 am

That's it, I'm putting you all on Ignore.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby JO 753 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 am

I think we hav more communication freedom than ever, but that nobodyz lissening. Its 99.999999% chatter. Anything significant being sed iz lost in the noize so The Powerz That Be dont care. Their power iz secure.

Did you see the newz about that rebel in Illinois getting shot for propozing a gun insident tax? The NRA didnt want ideaz like that gaining traction so they sent a mekanik to fix it.

No? Didnt hear about that?

Its kuz it didnt happen.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:33 pm

The ignore function is bad enough but we got to do something about that awful scroll feature, and pagination is of the very devil.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: A dying forum

Postby nmblum88 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:18 pm

Why would anyone care if another poster makes the not really world shaking, universe altering decision to ignore another poster?
Is there some onus too it?
To whom?
What purpose does it serve?
Can a usually anonymous mouse strutting his pompous stuff trying to sound like a lion really ruin your day, much less change your life?
In most cases the public announcement is made with the synthetic fervor of a Republican Congressman publicly condemning homosexuality… it's clearly someone with severe problems of his own.
Why not just elide over what doesn't interest you…..topics, people, style, signs of instability, patent ignorance, endless repetition…. and go back to making your own noise?
That's what I do…and I'm still here.
Although I do wish that I had a better class of "ignorers."
The present batch seem remarkably in need of library cards.
And juice.


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Re: A dying forum

Postby JO 753 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:20 pm

Pyrrho wrote:The ignore function is bad enough but we got to do something about that awful scroll feature, and pagination is of the very devil.


Back to email groups I say!
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:49 pm

Regarding the collection of information...the system records the IP number when you make a post. The system stores cookies on your computer, but they are not "tracking cookies" that follow you on the Internet. The system stores your email address, your posts, and your private messages. These are the basic functions of Internet message boards.

I strongly advise people not to post identifying information about themselves on any message board.

Aside from operating under the banner of The Skeptics Society, this forum doesn't have a mission to dictate some sort of message.

I have belonged to forums whose administrators thought they and the forum had a "mission." The purpose of this forum is to facilitate communication and discussion, no special mission required. If The Skeptics Society were to decide that they don't want a forum anymore, I'd make other arrangements and the world would keep spinning.

The ignore function is there for people who care to use it. If someone puts you on ignore, what do you care? You've had your say and I do not see the problem if someone else doesn't want to read it. It is certainly not ostracism.

WHATever...
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: A dying forum

Postby kennyc » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:26 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:The ignore function is bad enough but we got to do something about that awful scroll feature, and pagination is of the very devil.


Back to email groups I say!


now you got me thinking about netnews....newsgroups...all that pre-interwebz stuffz...
there are still lots of yahoo groups and I belong to a few...
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Re: A dying forum

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:47 pm

Gord wrote:That's it, I'm putting you all on Ignore.

All I do is prattle anyway, so who cares. :nyaah:
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Flash » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:32 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:
I am seriously considering abandoning my Internet services but am finding it difficult...

Aha...you see, aha...you are an Internet junkie like the rest of us Scott. We are the Internet addicts. I bet most of us don't even watch TeeVee or just watch the news...essentially confirming what we have already gotten from the Internet and we peek outside from time to time to confirm that the world is still there.

nmblum wrote:
Why not just elide over what doesn't interest you…..topics, people, style, signs of instability, patent ignorance, endless repetition…. and go back to making your own noise?
That's what I do…and I'm still here.

Good point, so am I. :mrgreen:
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:58 pm

Flash wrote:This forum will die too if members keep hitting the ignore button too often or refuse to participate in discussions just because the views expressed are not to their liking. Ostracizing members for their views is not a good way to keep a forum alive.

Norma knows this and that's why she never puts anybody on ignore and answers even the most objectionable posts. For that she often gets either ignored or viciously attacked with the kernel of her argument left unanswered.

Most of that is because she's a drunken moron.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Pyrrho » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:02 am

Gawd, really, that was uncalled for.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: A dying forum

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:07 am

Pyrrho wrote:Gawd, really, that was uncalled for.

Yeah, I know.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:55 am

Flash wrote:[peek outside from time to time to confirm that the world is still there.

Every now and then, I have to let the cat out.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: A dying forum

Postby Gord » Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:49 am

JO 753 wrote:I think we hav more communication freedom than ever, but that nobodyz lissening. Its 99.999999% chatter. Anything significant being sed iz lost in the noize so The Powerz That Be dont care. Their power iz secure.

Oh, shut up. :P
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Re: A dying forum

Postby JO 753 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:57 am

yes Mr. Gord. Sorry I stepped out uv line. It wont happen agen, sir.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Gord » Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:24 pm

JO 753 wrote:yes Mr. Gord. Sorry I stepped out uv line. It wont happen agen, sir.

Good. Where's my coffee?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
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Re: A dying forum

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:54 pm

Gord wrote:
JO 753 wrote:yes Mr. Gord. Sorry I stepped out uv line. It wont happen agen, sir.

Good. Where's my coffee?

Here
Last edited by OlegTheBatty on Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: A dying forum

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:59 pm

A-number wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Flash wrote:[peek outside from time to time to confirm that the world is still there.

Every now and then, I have to let the cat out.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I really like that Oleg,... I mean clearly for how many laughing smilies I clicked on :? ...
...really? can you post his/her pic :o ? Please 8-) ?

I don't have a camera.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: A dying forum

Postby Scott Mayers » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:26 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Regarding the collection of information...the system records the IP number when you make a post. The system stores cookies on your computer, but they are not "tracking cookies" that follow you on the Internet. The system stores your email address, your posts, and your private messages. These are the basic functions of Internet message boards.

I strongly advise people not to post identifying information about themselves on any message board.

Aside from operating under the banner of The Skeptics Society, this forum doesn't have a mission to dictate some sort of message.

I have belonged to forums whose administrators thought they and the forum had a "mission." The purpose of this forum is to facilitate communication and discussion, no special mission required. If The Skeptics Society were to decide that they don't want a forum anymore, I'd make other arrangements and the world would keep spinning.

The ignore function is there for people who care to use it. If someone puts you on ignore, what do you care? You've had your say and I do not see the problem if someone else doesn't want to read it. It is certainly not ostracism.

WHATever...

I recognize that this is one of the best forums as I still come here. What I have said above was more of a general frustration to many things regarding the communications industry. One point that I should make regarding the comment on the option to block through the "ignore" button, however, is that this serves no actual function if (a) a person is wanting to 'ignore' because this voluntary action can be done regardless of it. As such, the only use of it IS to be used for data collection only. While you may personally NOT be using this in such a way, the forum format of the company who designed this [phpBB Group] certainly may have this capacity and likely using bots to check the data regularly. And (b), what I've already mentioned, only where others even discuss ignoring, they likely choose this act as a means to garner support for doing it by trying to obtain popular support for doing so. I know this is a normal human tendency (even without conscious evil intent) and so I am not trying to insult anyone for doing it either. But pointing it out can help to discourage how we treat each other with better respect and consideration.

I don't see myself leaving the Internet in any time soon. What I say is out of sincere emotional frustration with how things are being perceived by me from my local end and is something occurring all over as I understand it. It frustrates me more how it is rarer to find people stand up to the issues. Often it is about how overwhelming it all seems for anyone to feel that they have any power to effectively do anything about it. And so speaking here like I do is about that too. I don't mind being potentially wrong on some of what I say either.

Oh, and was it Norma above asking what the big deal regarding 'ignoring' is otherwise? For that, I see 'ignoring' as a potential form of neglectful abuse that we are all apart of in general. The trouble with the lack of being able to pinpoint one's accountability gets lost in the crowd when everyone does it and assumes it as a normal 'right'. [see Bystander Effect]
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Scott Mayers » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:33 pm

Just in case, if what I said above in regards to anyone's interest to use the "ignore" button (or similar type things) to record what people's likes or dislikes are, I formally announce this idea as my own creative property right in any parts of the world and anyone choosing to use idea to collect data must not do so under ANY circumstances unless I have granted written legal permission upon a receipt of inquiry to use this technique as well as to any compensatory demands that I may ask of you for such permission. Copyright © as of now, October 6, 2014 by me, Scott Mayers.

Thanks. :D
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Scott Mayers » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:14 pm

You just proved in the last sentence how you are using it to filibuster -- appeal to others to jump on the band wagon. Other than that, I still don't get what the feature actually does? It's like opting to self-censure by deliberately choosing to hide your head in the sand.
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As to an analogy to the filibustering, how do you feel if you walk down the street and someone walking past, even if you don't know them, holds up their hands to overtly block your face as if you are the one intruding on their right to be unseen? Such behavior wouldn't certainly act constructively if you had to deal with them regularly.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:41 am

Scott Mayers wrote: I still don't get what the feature actually does? It's like opting to self-censure by deliberately choosing to hide your head in the sand.
It is to ignore worthless trolls when you are concentrating on another person's "on topic" claims or arguments.

Next question.

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Re: A dying forum

Postby Scott Mayers » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:55 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote: I still don't get what the feature actually does? It's like opting to self-censure by deliberately choosing to hide your head in the sand.
It is to ignore worthless trolls when you are concentrating on another person's "on topic" claims or arguments.

Next question.

How is your preferential use representative of the norm in light of the above?
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Re: A dying forum

Postby JO 753 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:17 am

You joined near the end uv the last prezidential election cycle, Scott. Did you read any uv the political topics?

There were sum pure GoP eko chamber repeaterz here who I woudnt blame anybody for putting on ignore. They had nothing to say that wuznt being blasted out nonstop by the GoP propaganda machine.

I'v never uzed ignore, but I understand the usefulness. If sumwun duznt hav a bunch uv free time, let the machine do sum uv the work.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Gord » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:57 am

Is it dead yet?

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:
JO 753 wrote:yes Mr. Gord. Sorry I stepped out uv line. It wont happen agen, sir.

Good. Where's my coffee?

Here

Ew! Ecuador?! I only drink my coffee from this place: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/i ... n_1972.jpg

Go get me some. Just watch out for ebola.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby JO 753 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:32 am

Nothing like ebola coffee! The beanz are eaten by ebola infected rodents wich get eaten by ebola infected cats, their poop iz collected by ebola infected coffee farmerz who spend their last dayz seperating out the beanz.

Purists insist that they must be shipped in boats with ebola infested crewz and then ground & served by ebola infected baristaz, but thats just silly woo thinking, like ultra hi end stereo equipment.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby nmblum88 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:59 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Gawd, really, that was uncalled for.


That's all right, Pyrrho.
No need to remonstrate.
I am quite certifiably neither a drunk nor a moron, and the mindless remark says more about its author than it possibly could say about me.
Besides, some leeway must be allowed, I think, because lying around all day in a damp, perhaps soaked, but surely chaffing diaper can't be conducive to coherent thinking, or even making sense.
Poor thing… our Medicare should be more generous with home attendant care.

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" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

Matthew Ellard
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:33 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote: I still don't get what the feature actually does? It's like opting to self-censure by deliberately choosing to hide your head in the sand.
It is to ignore worthless trolls when you are concentrating on another person's "on topic" claims or arguments.

Next question.

How is your preferential use representative of the norm in light of the above?

I ignore Norma unless she follows me around with her "running commentary" on my posts. I can't put Norma on ignore as she keeps wandering into threads were there is a discussion going on, to talk about herself and make blatantly incorrect statements, which I need to correct for the discussion, not Norma. I have had Sweetpea on physical ignore as "worthless" for almost two years. I ignore Skaka/Clarifyit4me as it is the same post every time.

I am here for the bizarre claims and good humour, and not to read the posts of boring people craving attention.

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Re: A dying forum

Postby JO 753 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:16 am

I think part uv wuts killing Infinity iz an old timer rezident troll. At least 1, maybe a few otherz. He iz wun uv thoze bored & boring sour pussez who do very little beyond gripe and deride everybody and their ideaz.

Therez a guy like that in the CR4 enjineering forum also. I didnt quit that forum, but I almost never go there anymore. It wuznt the troll, but the bad forum software and their insistens that I spell in regular stupid english that ruined it for me.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby clarsct » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:39 am

I tend to ignore people the old fashioned way. I was making people feel like a stick of furniture about the time of the birth of the internet. I am more than capable of doing so now.

Yes, I am old. Not that old, more middle aged. But old.
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Re: A dying forum

Postby Scott Mayers » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:56 am

I've said my piece on the 'ignore button' issue and will leave it at that.

As to Matthew's reason for coming here, you stated that you come here to read "bizarre" claims and "humor". I'm not against your prerogative, but perhaps I'm mistaken about how or why people go to certain forums. I think that it is hard to determine this and wonder if how certain forums appear to be defined may mislead what the majority of people actually use those forums for. This may be the reason why some forums are dying as this thread opened with.

I go to skeptic groups locally as well and find those types of forums potentially misleading in kind. For example, is the function of a "skeptic" group to discuss with like-minded individuals for the sake of emotional bonding, perhaps to ridicule the absurdity of others, or to invite intellectual discussion and debate on issues?

I at first thought that these were intended to invite people to participate in discussion and debate on any issues that one has reason to be 'skeptical' of or to engage in allowing others to question and challenge even your own views in a respectable way. Of course, this involves challenging 'odd' beliefs. But in order to challenge them, you'd expect that you have to be encouraging some of those with those odd beliefs to also come along to state them, feel welcome, and enjoy the process of discussion in an atmosphere that doesn't ridicule them which scares them away. But I noticed that the tendency was for people to simply scare them away.

Then, I thought, well maybe such forums are more intended to invite only like-minded people in order to figure out how to be better at skepticism elsewhere by practicing the skills. As such, you'd have to present a case of controversy from elsewhere and open the discussion with a proposition (not necessarily your own) in order to 'test' it intellectually and challenge other skeptics for their capacity to argue. This should necessarily require at least someone to be advocating a position with sincerity to those who argue as such and then defeat them with rational arguments. Instead, I witness ridicule more often than arguments except where those who simply reference issues with closure not expecting actual discussion or debate.

Okay, so, then we are left with the simple idea that this type of forum is just really a club of like-minded people to only discuss lightly, not intending to actually be serious, for the sake of entertainment (like the humor, as you suggested).

I'm not surprised that many forums are having issues. Note that I'm not targeting "skepticism" forums only. This is happening everywhere. I think it is moreso on generically-titled or defined groups, like "science" or "religion". I think that the success or failures of these sites or other forums have to relate to these problems of clarity that I raise. And this is one of the major reasons that I try to focus on how we behave.

Notice how when I first came here that I immediately introduced my own 'odd' (= non-popular) beliefs with regards to physics. I was hoping to do this up front because I needed to know how accepting people are and able to raise unconventional views and to reasonably argue. I have done this locally in some groups too. The one thing that most troubled me was that more often than not, my intention to test the sincerity often acted to set a precedence in people's minds about who I was or am and even though I thought that other skeptics are just as open as I was, I keep discovering that many are just as dysfunctionally unable to argue rationally as those 'weird' people.

Again, this is why I try to address issues about behavior, like how the "Holocaust Section" could be self-defeating by placing it up front; like the "ignore" button; or, like how various other sites use "junk" sections. I've also tried to be equally oppositional to others' claims even where I may actually agree because I thought it would only benefit us all in some way by being adversarial and fair.

As a last point, I joined a few local groups and online forums in which I got the impression were 'weird' relative to myself because I thought that I could practice my 'skeptical' skills in reasoning. I thought that I'd be way more unwelcome in such groups. But to my surprise (and shock), my skepticism was more welcome than not. What I learned is that for all of these, [I didn't try any extremely odd belief groups, just the generic ones] many of the people there were just as skeptical in mind but less willing to speak up to contentious issues. All they needed was someone willing to initiate the discussion in a sincere and non-abusive way.

I still struggle with my own nature to appear 'angry' or abusive myself at times. I think this is somehow related to the fact that skepticism or any good critical thinking skills are more often initiated by the conflicts we experience with others in stronger ways than the average person. The default of humans (or any animal) is to take the shortest route to get what we want in practice. This is why ignorance truly is bliss and why intelligence is rare.

Does anyone else not make sense of this in my argument here?
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

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JO 753
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Re: A dying forum

Postby JO 753 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:17 pm

Not me.

I can think uv reazonz why any particular forum iz doing well or not, but its really just an ad-hoc based on the actual fact. You can pozit any number uv alternativ explanationz that coud be equally reazonable.

1 thing iz certain tho - people go to forumz mainly to socialize. The information they find, opinionz they express, the missionz sum uv them hav are secondary, even if its the orijinal reazon they joined that particular forum.
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JO 753
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Re: A dying forum

Postby JO 753 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:44 pm

This place iznt dying.
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