"It Is the Soldier"

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Pyrrho
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"It Is the Soldier"

Post by Pyrrho » Sun May 30, 2010 3:36 pm

The original, not the version babbled into jingoism by Sarah Palin

http://iwvpa.net/provincecm/
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by ShadowSot » Sun May 30, 2010 4:47 pm

Thanks for that.
"The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools".

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Monster » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:29 pm

Pyrrho wrote:The original, not the version babbled into jingoism by Sarah Palin

http://iwvpa.net/provincecm/

I'm not sure I agree with it totally. It is also the soldier, who, if he wished, could take all of that away.

And now that we have freedom, it is NOT the soldier who maintains it.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Monster » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:46 pm

I've been thinking about it and "It is the Soldier" is simply false.

For example, in countries that aren't the US, the soldiers are sometimes used as tools of tyranny.

In the US, soldiers fought for liberation of the colonies from Britain. But was there so much freedom with the first Constitution? Not necessarily, since blacks were slaves, women had fewer rights than men, and only landowners could vote. The freedom in the US we have now could be said to not have existed until the end of segregation. Soldiers didn't give present day Americans the freedoms we have now; those were politicians along with various civil activists that did it.

So, in my opinion, the soldier's role in giving American citizens' their freedom is very overrated.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Bunyip » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:48 am

The military is only a tool,used by the dominant power in a society establish and a maintain what is or becomes the status quo. Its not moral force,merely a one trick pony; naked force.

The police,judciary and the military are ALWAYS used to maintian order.

Our 'freedom' and our rights are establsihed by custom and law,they are not innate.. They are maintained by custom and by the rule of law, both of which are always based on force,explicit or implied.

Law and morality are cut from the same cloth,that of pragmatism. The Golden rule aways applies: "Them that has the gold gets to make the rules" (they also control the military)
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Brian Ganek » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:43 pm

The military are more than a tool, they are a profession common to every nation. The military swear allegiance to Constitution, as well as the lawful orders of their superiors. Military science used to be a school of history.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Martin Brock » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:02 am

Sentimental, state worshiping BS. I'm not free to speak because soldiers shoot other soldiers while claiming credit for my freedom to speak. I'm free to speak, because no soldier has shot me yet.

But it is the Soldier,
Who marches the Jew to the concentration camp.

Sarah Palin is an anti-Christian.
People associating freely respect norms of their choice, and relationships governed this way are necessarily interdependent.

More central authorities conquer by dividing, imposing norms channeling the value of synergy toward themselves.

"Every man for himself" is the prescription of a state, not a free community. A state protects the poor from the rich only in fairy tales.

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:55 am

I have never heard of anyone living under a military dictatorship waxing ecstatic over the wondrous freedoms they enjoy.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Gord » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:33 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:I have never heard of anyone living under a military dictatorship waxing ecstatic over the wondrous freedoms they enjoy.

You've never watched North Korean news? :notsure:
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:37 am

Gord wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:I have never heard of anyone living under a military dictatorship waxing ecstatic over the wondrous freedoms they enjoy.

You've never watched North Korean news? :notsure:


Not as such, no.

Are you refuting me by claiming that actors performing for the camera are bona fide ecstatic civilians?
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Gord » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:44 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:I have never heard of anyone living under a military dictatorship waxing ecstatic over the wondrous freedoms they enjoy.

You've never watched North Korean news? :notsure:


Not as such, no.

Are you refuting me by claiming that actors performing for the camera are bona fide ecstatic civilians?

"Bona fide ecstatic?!" You're moving the goalposts! :mrgreen:
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:24 am

Gord wrote: You're moving the goalposts! :mrgreen:


That's why they are on wheels. :nyaah:
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Sleeper » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:45 am

I've always wondered where that quotation came from. I first heard it in 2002 or 2003, close to the time of the invasion of Iraq. I never heard the full poem.

Thanks Pyrrho, it's good to know its origin.

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:30 am

The Universal Soldier was written and sung by Buffalo Sainte-Maire, who was born on a Cree Indian reservation in Saskatechewan.. She was black -listed from US campuses and radio during the Vietnam War, and toured Europe, instead. Her most well-known song is Up Where We Belong.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Brian Ganek » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:59 am

Martin Brock wrote:Sentimental, state worshiping BS. I'm not free to speak because soldiers shoot other soldiers while claiming credit for my freedom to speak. I'm free to speak, because no soldier has shot me yet.


You're not free to speak because of soldier's blood? What won the Revolutionary War, good intentions?

Martin Brock wrote:But it is the Soldier,
Who marches the Jew to the concentration camp.


More importantly, it is the Soldier who liberates the concentration camp, who defeats the Axis. We get the military we deserve, if we respect our soldiers and hold them to account, they can do heroic things. If we understand and appreciate the problems of military life, and express appreciation, it helps defend our country.


Martin Brock wrote:Sarah Palin is an anti-Christian.


That's awful slander.

Sarah Palin is the mother of a soldier, I am thankful for her sacrifice as a mother, for her support of our troops.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Martin Brock » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:54 am

Brian Ganek wrote:You're not free to speak because of soldier's blood? What won the Revolutionary War, good intentions?

The Revolutionary War didn't win anyone's freedom to speak. The Alien and Sedition Acts proved that almost immediately, and further evidence has emerged continually since. Some freedom-minded people existed within the revolutionary movement. How free speech would be without the revolution is always an open, if counter-historical, question, but I'm not the least bit convinced that speech is any freer in the U.S. today than it is in the U.K. I've seen both. Speech seems less free here.

More importantly, it is the Soldier who liberates the concentration camp, who defeats the Axis.

The Soldier you revere like a Saint takes control of the camps from another Soldier. You blithely ignore your saintly Soldier's destruction of supply lines to the camps before he takes control. Your Soldier is "saintly", not because his acts are so saintly, but because the other Solider is so devilish, so we endlessly swap one devil for another.

We get the military we deserve, if we respect our soldiers and hold them to account, they can do heroic things. If we understand and appreciate the problems of military life, and express appreciation, it helps defend our country.

Who is "we"? I'm not interested in heroism. I want fewer soldiers occupying less territory at lower cost. I'm not in the market for fascistic heroism.

Martin Brock wrote:That's awful slander.

Palin can sue me. She's an anti-Christian following anti-Christs and would order the rest of us to follow her anti-Christian lead straight to Hell, as her neo-con predecessors have already done. Her maternity and her son's occupation are utterly irrelevant. You waste your sentimental, political platitudes on me.
Last edited by Martin Brock on Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
People associating freely respect norms of their choice, and relationships governed this way are necessarily interdependent.

More central authorities conquer by dividing, imposing norms channeling the value of synergy toward themselves.

"Every man for himself" is the prescription of a state, not a free community. A state protects the poor from the rich only in fairy tales.

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Major Malfunction » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Brian Ganek wrote:Stuff.

Like Martin Brock said. Soldiers killing soldiers. And a bunch of by-standers besides.

To the victor the spoils. Including the history.

Wow. Brainwashed, or what?
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Brian Ganek » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:25 pm

The military art is the first subject of study, the profession of arms has an ancient bibliography. You go ahead with no nothing anti military reflex disgust, but I make it a point to thank soldiers, every time I see one.

It's very simple, "Thank you for your service." It's no big deal, takes less than half a minute, and everybody is happier when you do. Volunteer soldiers willing to face suicide bombers, a simple thanks and a smile, let them know that you value not wearing the veil, freedom to assemble and protest, freedom of religion and association. Just say, "Thanks."

Do you even know what you're talking about? What kind of soldier, junior enlisted, junior NCO, non commissioned officers, Senior NCOs, commissioned officers, company grade, field grade, general officers. What kind of service, military members, marines or coast guard, air force or navy, they all belong to the same gang. The gang that defends our country, has been since before it's Constitution. The country without a history of military interference in civilian affairs, a just military that prosecutes crime, a military that wins. Pulling back is giving up, territory, time, weather, equipment, training are key to victory or defeat. Pretend you can pull out of Gaza without giving it up to chaos, or change the balance of power by withdrawing from a conflict. The world is complex, with a bunch of really bad actors, it's not our villains that create our heroes, its our reverence for life.

The Soldier does it again, saves Afghans from the Taliban and their guests, Al Qaeda, saves Iraqis from Saddam, saves lives, helps the needy, stands up for the rights of all. This is the military we've got. The military where women serve in every branch, the military that's run by law, tradition and civilian elected leadership.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:43 pm

What do you tell the Iraqi, Afghan, Blackwater USA, and other mercenaries also doing your bidding? How about sexual prostitutes? I don't think that there's necessarily anything wrong with prostitution, but IMHO you're glamorizing it too much.

The ones that bother me most are the intellectual prostitutes like Limbaugh and Coulter who sell their integrity. The Hannity types might be too dumb to know what they're doing and the Krauthammers may be merely delusional, IMVHO. Maybe I'll find some choice barbs for "liberals", too.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Brian Ganek » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:55 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:What do you tell the Iraqi, Afghan, Blackwater USA, and other mercenaries also doing your bidding? How about prostitutes?


I'm talking about the Soldier, not the camp follower. What do you call them, Boss?

I tell them thanks because we are free, we don't have Sharia, we don't have theocratic rule. I tell their families, "Thank you for supporting our troops." I like to tell their children, "You are my hero because supporting a mom or dad in the military is one of the hardest things in the world for even an adult."

I just like to say thank you, especially in situations where it's inappropriate to tip.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:27 pm

I'm not talking about the home boys who defended their property during the revolution, or the home boys in the Mid-East, dude. I'm talking about professional soldiers like the Ghurka, the Samurai, the French Foreign Legion (which is now active now, under that name, in Afghanistan) and the US foreign legion, which has troops stationed in 130 or so countries. Guys I would tip my hat to are the Ghandis. Nelson Mandelas, John Browns, and Martin Luther Kings, who got pelted by rocks and bottles and kept fighting for a cause. Guys I especially have no use for are the Hannitys and Limbaughs who never served but make a living pandering to those who did, and particularly the Dick "I had other priorities" Cheney-type neoconservatives who never served, but profit directly from the military-industrial-political establishment.

Just because 20-year old kids get brainwashed into thinking they're doing something "patriotic" doesn't mean they're bad people, bin there done that, but I wouldn't tip my hat to them. But hey, you can tip your hat to whoever you damned-well please.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by seymore » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:07 pm

With all this talk of soldiers fighting for our freedoms I must ask "against who?". I can't see where any opponent that the US has fought against in this century has presented a significant threat against any freedom that I may enjoy. the Kaiser? I doubt it. the Phillipine insurection? get serious.
WW2 we were threatened by the Japanese as far as our right to exploit the islands of the Pacific. Hitler couldn't even cross the channel let alone the Atlantic. Korea? would you tell me that the Red menace was headed across the Pacific?,. Joe McCarthy was a threat to my freedoms but any communists in the state department were not.
Viet Nam? how were they a threat to us or to our"freedoms"? Grenada and Pannama were just Reagan justifying his defence spending priorities. Gulf war one was Bush (41) renting out the US military to protect the Emir of Kuwait. Gulf 2 was Bush (43) getting Saddam for dissing his daddy.
The Taliban don't care about our freedoms, they care about there own and Osama just wants to kill us and get us out of Saudi Arabia.
If you want my involvment in it all was, I turned 21 in DaNang, South Vietnam and I have seen shots fired in anger. ( so don't call me a "Commie-Hippie-Pinko-Fag lol)
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by vanderpoel » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:09 am

I guess I should be nice to John McCain today on independence day and hold no animosity for his cunningly letting no tragedy go to waste.

This week a house sub-committee blocked 4 billion dollars on concerns of rampant corruption in Afghanistan. On ABC This Week Senator John McCain was asked by Jake Tapper if he supports blocking these funds until the government is more sure that the money is not being stolen? His response was:

"I think we need to go ahead and spend the money. (blah, blah, example of American marine partnering with Afghan cop, blah, blah) I do not believe that we could succeed in motivating the government in cutting down on corruption if we cut off the funds".

So McCain is advocating the idea that you can cut down on corruption by continuing to pay for it. How corrupt is that? McCain should know because that's how extortion works in the senate, but no one should die for that nonsense in Afghanistan.

This July 4th, troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and Kuwait can call the U.S for free for a full 24 hours in honor of Independence Day. Maybe the troops should call the senator and ask him for an explanation. Or his resignation. Or a bonus.

With all the furor about the rules of engagement that endanger our soldiers it's nice to know that your intel may be corrupt as well. Some sons and daughters of American citizens are sacrificed for the lies that we don't negotiate with terrorists, but of course we do...

Sometimes we call it "Shock and Awe" and other times we call it "Hearts and Minds".

Shock and Awe is usually the reason why Hearts and Minds are won.
So, with "only a handful of Al Qaeda" in theater why are we so careful to let them live?

The obvious answer is that If we eliminated them all tomorrow we would have to stop bribing the government tomorrow, since with Al Qaeda gone, it would be: "Mission Accomplished". We can always come back when the Taliban is back in power.

But an obvious answer in Kabul is an ambiguous answer in Washington.
So far their strategy is in line with the old-fashioned way of making money:
You buy it.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Brian Ganek » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:08 am

Tom-Palven wrote:I'm not talking about the home boys who defended their property during the revolution, or the home boys in the Mid-East, dude. I'm talking about professional soldiers like the Ghurka, the Samurai, the French Foreign Legion (which is now active now, under that name, in Afghanistan) and the US foreign legion, which has troops stationed in 130 or so countries....

I've seen the French Foreign Legion protect the left flank of the coalitions' drive into Iraq during the Gulf War and help deliver humanitarian assistance in the Former Republic of Yugoslavia. They've been an active military unit since 1831. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... ign_Legion
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Brian Ganek » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:50 am

Our military personnel are defending freedom. This is Obama's war, NATO's war, Europe's war, the French Foreign Legion's war. The Marine's war, killing our enemies, protecting our allies and cutting their losses. I love a good debate, while OPs in Afghanistan face attack. I love our troops and admire their bravery in the face of grotesque opposition.

It's the Republican's war, New York's war, all our war and it's the soldiers who bring us victory.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:25 am

Brian,
Since we've just celebrated Independence Day, I'll repeat one of the charges against King George III in the US Delaration of Independence:
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance."
IMHO the Afghans are fighting against the same thing: the multitude of US Foreign Legion soldiers, Blackwater mercenaries, and vacillating poppy-eradicating, carrot and stick-weilding bureaucrats. Some of what you call the "grotesque opposition" in the green mountains of Afghanistan are probably the freedom-loving equivalent of Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys. Yanqui Go Home!
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Brian Ganek » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:42 pm

T.P., America's enemies said the same thing about the Viet Cong.

We are killing terrorists and Islamic extremists in Afghanistan, so we don't have to fight them in Europe, the Pacific or in American cities. I don't think throwing acid on schoolgirls or theocracy were the founding fathers' idea of independence.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:47 pm

And the way I see it, America's "enemies" were right. The story, as I understand it, is that Eisenhower promised Ho Chi Minh that if he held off the Japanese, that he would not allow the French colonial government, which had fled to France, to regain power in Vietnam. But after the war, when Eisenhower wanted the French in NATIO, he reneged on his promise and aided the French return. When the Viet Cong whipped the French, the US became the colonial wannabes.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Martin Brock » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:17 pm

Brian Ganek wrote:We are killing terrorists and Islamic extremists in Afghanistan, so we don't have to fight them in Europe, the Pacific or in American cities. I don't think throwing acid on schoolgirls or theocracy were the founding fathers' idea of independence.

We kill a few terrorists and create a lot more by killing the friends and family of terrorists as well as countless Afghans with no more sympathy for terrorists than for U.S. occupiers. We aren't killing any 9/11 hijackers or their friends and family, because they all came from Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Egypt. Afghans aren't even Arabs, and the Islamists in Afghanistan were friendly with bin Laden, because bin Laden supported them against the Soviet occupation, when the U.S. Soldier was fighting with him.

We aren't fighting a war for mutilated schoolgirls or against theocracy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/world ... dahar.html

"But exactly who was behind the acid attack is a mystery. The Taliban denied any part in it. The police arrested eight men and, shortly after that, the Ministry of Interior released a video showing two men confessing. One of them said he had been paid by an officer with the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, the Pakistani intelligence agency, to carry out the attack."

If this report is true, the acid thrower was employed by an agency of a government receiving billions of dollars in military aid from the United States, and the school girls might be collateral damage in a propaganda war.

The current Afghan Constitution, adopted following the U.S. occupation, begins this way:

"In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainers of Worlds; and Praise and Peace be upon Mohammad, His Last Messenger and his disciples and followers

We the people of Afghanistan:

1) Believing firmly in Almighty God, relying on His divine will and adhering to the Holy religion of Islam;"

The current Pakistani Constitution begins this way:

"Whereas sovereignty over the entire Universe belongs to Almighty Allah alone, and the authority to be exercised by the people of Pakistan within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;"
People associating freely respect norms of their choice, and relationships governed this way are necessarily interdependent.

More central authorities conquer by dividing, imposing norms channeling the value of synergy toward themselves.

"Every man for himself" is the prescription of a state, not a free community. A state protects the poor from the rich only in fairy tales.

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Brian Ganek » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:34 am

Martin Brock wrote:...We aren't fighting a war for mutilated schoolgirls or against theocracy....


Speak for yourself, check out this Time Magazine cover: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 69,00.html

The Plight of Afghan Women: A Disturbing Picture
By RICHARD STENGEL, MANAGING EDITOR Thursday, Jul. 29, 2010

"Our cover image this week is powerful, shocking and disturbing. It is a portrait of Aisha, a shy 18-year-old Afghan woman who was sentenced by a Taliban commander to have her nose and ears cut off for fleeing her abusive in-laws."
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:04 am

Brian Ganek wrote:
Martin Brock wrote:...We aren't fighting a war for mutilated schoolgirls or against theocracy....


Speak for yourself, check out this Time Magazine cover: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 69,00.html

The Plight of Afghan Women: A Disturbing Picture
By RICHARD STENGEL, MANAGING EDITOR Thursday, Jul. 29, 2010

"Our cover image this week is powerful, shocking and disturbing. It is a portrait of Aisha, a shy 18-year-old Afghan woman who was sentenced by a Taliban commander to have her nose and ears cut off for fleeing her abusive in-laws."


Brian, you truly believe that the US is a knight in shining armour fighting to prevent women's noses from being cut off, don't you? You must have liked Pulitzer Prize-winning warmonger Charles Krauthammer's article the other day about why the US should attack Iran, Syria, and Lebanon. Kill the people there to save their noses and provide them with democracy..
Didn't the US support Marcos, who always claimed forever that there would be free elections, and doesn't the US support General Mubarek in Egypt who has promised to have free elections some day soon, for years? The US government also supports and enables the totally undemocratic Kingdoms of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Kuwait, and Morocco, among others, while the socialist Muslim Brotherhood tries to undermine those caste systems. The same was true in South Africa where the commies aided the revolutionary efforts of the African National Congress while the US turned a blind eye to apartheid and supported the white moneyed interests until the last moment. Commies also gave moral support to Martin Luther King's push for equality under the law, while the FBI harassed him. I once called myself a conservative, but it sure wasn't liberals who were carrying axe handles to prevent the integration of schools in the South, despite Rush Limbaugh, in an effort to muddy the waters, saying it was Republicans who supported integration efforts while Democrats didn't, conveniently ignoring the liberal vs conservative labels of that time.

Wikipedia says, regarding the building of the Transcontinelntal Railway from Seoul to Moscow:
"South Korea and Russia are working together on construction of a bilateral industrial complex in the Nakhodka Free Economic Area in Russia's Far East and gas-fields development in Irkutsk. The two sides also agreed to cooperate on reconnecting a planned inter-Korean railroad with the Trans-Siberian Railroad. Russia has expressed interest in becoming a conduit for South Korean exports to Europe, which now go by ship, by linking the Korean railroad to the TSR." (TSR is TransSiberian Railroad.)

Work has been done on this project for years, with mines being cleared and railroad tracks constructed, but the Chairman of Hyundai who has favored a "Sunshine Policy" leading to Korean unification, and who has sponsored this project, has blamed the US for impeding the railway project.

I don't consider myself to be a "hate America firster". I love the spirit of Edison and the Wright Bros, New England clam chowder, old Jackie Gleason and Seinfeld reruns, and so on, and I'm certainly not a collectivist-type liberal, but a free marketeer, but it seems that you have to be wearing blinders and be brainwashed by the government school system not to see that the US government is not a force for peace and freedom in the world, except for the freedom of large corporations.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Brian Ganek » Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:55 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:...[/i] despite Rush Limbaugh, in an effort to muddy the waters, saying it was Republicans who supported integration efforts while Democrats didn't, conveniently ignoring the liberal vs conservative labels of that time....


Last Friday a caller said, " In July of '09 President Obama gave a speech at the NAACP where he went on at great length about the Jim Crow South. He neglected to mention a few things. One is that it is a Democrat Party itself which is the party of Jim Crow. George Wallace, Orval Faubus, Strom Thurman, Fulbright, Bull Connor. They were all Democrats."

We can include deceased Senator Robert Byrd, (D, KKK)

Next, America isn't a knight in shining armor, but it is a force for good in the world. I'm not in favor of cutting aid to Egypt because I don't want the Muslim Brotherhood to gain power. If you have a problem with foreign policy, tell Obama, it's his wars now.

What do you think about the picture on the cover of Time magazine?
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:20 pm

Yes, Brian, George Wallace, Orval Faubus, Strom Thurman, William Fulbright, Bull Connor, and Lester Maddox were all Democrats, at a time when what was called "The Solid South" was solidly Democrat, solidly religious, solidly conservative, and solidly for segregation. Now the South is still solidly conservative, but solidly Republican. The same kind of people who voted for George Wallace now vote Republican here in the South, but Limbaugh tries to pretend that it was liberal Democrats who stood at the doors of grade schools and colleges with pick handles to prevent black kids from entering. It's these same kind of concerned citizens, and they are not liberal Democrats, who pack their guns down to Arizona to prevent Mexicans, many with Native American bloodlines, from crossing into a different part of North America, because only people with their papers in order are entitled to individual liberty and the freedom to find work wherever they want to.
BTW, it wasn't just a caller to the Limbaugh show that said these things about Southern Democrats of the past. Limbaugh repeats this BS often.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Brian Ganek » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:00 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:...I don't consider myself to be a "hate America firster". I love the spirit of Edison and the Wright Bros, New England clam chowder, old Jackie Gleason and Seinfeld reruns, and so on...


I love America.

The Declaration of Independence, Constitution, George Washington and the heroes, the men and women of the US military. I thank every soldier, sailor, airman, marine and coast guarder that I meet for our freedom and their service.
Things are seldom as they seem, skim milk masquerades as cream.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by fromthehills » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:39 am

Tom-Palven wrote:Yes, Brian, George Wallace, Orval Faubus, Strom Thurman, William Fulbright, Bull Connor, and Lester Maddox were all Democrats, at a time when what was called "The Solid South" was solidly Democrat, solidly religious, solidly conservative, and solidly for segregation. Now the South is still solidly conservative, but solidly Republican. The same kind of people who voted for George Wallace now vote Republican here in the South, but Limbaugh tries to pretend that it was liberal Democrats who stood at the doors of grade schools and colleges with pick handles to prevent black kids from entering. It's these same kind of concerned citizens, and they are not liberal Democrats, who pack their guns down to Arizona to prevent Mexicans, many with Native American bloodlines, from crossing into a different part of North America, because only people with their papers in order are entitled to individual liberty and the freedom to find work wherever they want to.
BTW, it wasn't just a caller to the Limbaugh show that said these things about Southern Democrats of the past. Limbaugh repeats this BS often.


I think I tried to explain this concept here, before. Amazingly, it wasn't that long ago that the parties switched positions, but no one remembers. Thanks, Tom.

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:42 am

Yeah, Washington and those guys were pretty special in their day, but what about The Honeymooners with Jackie Gleason, Art Carney, and Audrey Meadows?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:46 am

Thanks, FTH. Our posts crossed.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Gord » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:36 am

Tom-Palven wrote:...what about The Honeymooners with Jackie Gleason, Art Carney, and Audrey Meadows?

Ah, spousal abuse, the good ol' days! Remember when Andy Capp used to beat up his wife because of beer? Yeah. [Archie Bunker] "Those were the days." [/Archie Bunker]
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Flash » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:59 am

Brian Ganek wrote:
I love America.

The Declaration of Independence, Constitution, George Washington and the heroes, the men and women of the US military. I thank every soldier, sailor, airman, marine and coast guarder that I meet for our freedom and their service.

So....You love the old federal documents and sailors. No way? :shock:
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Aztexan » Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:47 am

It's not that love is blind, it's that it's harder to see with our one eye. Like Mr.Magoo, we often find ourselves in weird and unusual predicaments and shenanigans. Unlike Mr. Magoo, they're not usually funny.
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