"It Is the Soldier"

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Pyrrho » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:34 am

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/photo/ ... ec43a9.jpg

Ed Bebenroth, 94, of North Royalton flew 38 missions over Europe as a bombardier with the legendary 8th Air Force. His service included America's first air assault on Berlin and the deadly mass missions to destroy German ball-bearing factories.


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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:59 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Brian Ganek wrote:
Martin Brock wrote:...We aren't fighting a war for mutilated schoolgirls or against theocracy....
Speak for yourself, check out this Time Magazine cover: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 69,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Plight of Afghan Women: A Disturbing Picture
By RICHARD STENGEL, MANAGING EDITOR Thursday, Jul. 29, 2010

"Our cover image this week is powerful, shocking and disturbing. It is a portrait of Aisha, a shy 18-year-old Afghan woman who was sentenced by a Taliban commander to have her nose and ears cut off for fleeing her abusive in-laws."
Brian, you truly believe that the US is a knight in shining armour fighting to prevent women's noses from being cut off, don't you? You must have liked Pulitzer Prize-winning warmonger Charles Krauthammer's article the other day about why the US should attack Iran, Syria, and Lebanon. Kill the people there to save their noses and provide them with democracy..
Didn't the US support Marcos, who always claimed forever that there would be free elections, and doesn't the US support General Mubarek in Egypt who has promised to have free elections some day soon, for years? The US government also supports and enables the totally undemocratic Kingdoms of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Kuwait, and Morocco, among others, while the socialist Muslim Brotherhood tries to undermine those caste systems. The same was true in South Africa where the commies aided the revolutionary efforts of the African National Congress while the US turned a blind eye to apartheid and supported the white moneyed interests until the last moment. Commies also gave moral support to Martin Luther King's push for equality under the law, while the FBI harassed him. I once called myself a conservative, but it sure wasn't liberals who were carrying axe handles to prevent the integration of schools in the South, despite Rush Limbaugh, in an effort to muddy the waters, saying it was Republicans who supported integration efforts while Democrats didn't, conveniently ignoring the liberal vs conservative labels of that time.

Wikipedia says, regarding the building of the Transcontinelntal Railway from Seoul to Moscow:
"South Korea and Russia are working together on construction of a bilateral industrial complex in the Nakhodka Free Economic Area in Russia's Far East and gas-fields development in Irkutsk. The two sides also agreed to cooperate on reconnecting a planned inter-Korean railroad with the Trans-Siberian Railroad. Russia has expressed interest in becoming a conduit for South Korean exports to Europe, which now go by ship, by linking the Korean railroad to the TSR." (TSR is TransSiberian Railroad.)

Work has been done on this project for years, with mines being cleared and railroad tracks constructed, but the Chairman of Hyundai who has favored a "Sunshine Policy" leading to Korean unification, and who has sponsored this project, has blamed the US for impeding the railway project.

I don't consider myself to be a "hate America firster". I love the spirit of Edison and the Wright Bros, New England clam chowder, old Jackie Gleason and Seinfeld reruns, and so on, and I'm certainly not a collectivist-type liberal, but a free marketeer, but it seems that you have to be wearing blinders and be brainwashed by the government school system not to see that the US government is not a force for peace and freedom in the world, except for the freedom of large corporations.

SSDD, ten years later, in fact:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... -halted-us
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:40 am

Today is V-J Day. The madness abated.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Gord » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:39 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Today is V-J Day. The madness abated.
I had a V8 in celebration.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:20 am

I was interested to see the coments on the American war of independence and suggestions that it brought freedom.

This was was an experiment that actually included a control. The control was Canada. It is right next door and remained with Britain. So to see the so called benefits of that destructive and murderous conflict, just see how much freer the USA is compared to Canada.

Oh, wait a minute.........



According to Transparency International, Canada is 8th least corrupt nation put of 180, while the USA is in 16th place. We can sure see how Canada suffered under Britain !

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:48 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:I was interested to see the coments on the American war of independence and suggestions that it brought freedom.
Imho the communist revolutions in Russia and China that freed the serfs and threw off the yoke of elite royalty were great advances in human freedom, and by the same token the American revolution that kicked out the absurd, bogus concept of King George's Divine Rights of Kings here in the US was progress, also.

Right now it's time to stop aiding and abetting the elite, barbaric absolute monarachy in Saudi Arabia.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:33 pm

I read "Diary of a Revolutionary War Soldier" (close) a few decades ago. Assigned reading for the military history class I was a T/A for. I told the ROTCs in small group (125 students) that if they joined the military they would hear things very similar from their troops. It wasn't even spooky, it was just GIs being GIs.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by landrew » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:17 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:I have never heard of anyone living under a military dictatorship waxing ecstatic over the wondrous freedoms they enjoy.
You've never watched North Korean news? :notsure:
Not as such, no.

Are you refuting me by claiming that actors performing for the camera are bona fide ecstatic civilians?
Expatriats from N. Korea report that the they are fully indoctrinated from birth to believe they are an island of freedom and prosperity amongst a sea of hostile enemies bent on their destruction.
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:13 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:I have never heard of anyone living under a military dictatorship waxing ecstatic over the wondrous freedoms they enjoy.

Maybe they sometimes wax ecstatic over the freedom to oppress and attack other people?

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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:52 pm

[quote="Tom Palven] by the same token the American revolution that kicked out the absurd, bogus concept of King George's Divine Rights of Kings here in the US was progress, also.

[/quote]

I have never seen any solid empirical evidence to suggest any gains of significance were made. Not that I support royalty. I definitely do not. But the American system replaced a corrupt king with corrupt politicians, not much of a gain ! Your founding fathers were nearly all slave owners, and slavery persisted for another century (near enough), while the vote was given only to 8% of the population.

Other English speaking British colonies (NZ, Australia and Canada ) did every bit as well as the USA, and ended up with much less corrupt governments. Americans paid the horrible price that any war entails, and ended up with corrupt politicians.

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Tom Palven is an idiot 3

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:47 am

Tom Palven wrote:Imho the communist revolutions in Russia and China that freed the serfs and threw off the yoke of elite royalty were great advances in human freedom,
What royalty did the Chinese Communists get rid of in 1948 Tom? How was the Chinese Nationalist party (Kuomintang) "royalty"?

Do you know where China is Tom?

Can you tell us which democratic party fled to Taiwan in 1948 ? (Hint : The Nationalist Party)
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot 3

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:25 am

Tom Palven wrote:Imho the communist revolutions in Russia and China that freed the serfs and threw off the yoke of elite royalty were great advances in human freedom,
Soooooo Tom.......Are you claiming the Czar, who was overthrown by the Provincial Russian democratic government of 1917, lead by Alexander Kerensky, of the Socialist Party which you claim was actually communist?

You see....... every history book on the planet states the Bolshevik communist party overthrew the socialists after that.


Have you read this book? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: "It Is the Soldier"

Post by Gord » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:36 am

Flash - Last active: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:25 pm

*sigh*
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot 3

Post by landrew » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:07 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:Imho the communist revolutions in Russia and China that freed the serfs and threw off the yoke of elite royalty were great advances in human freedom,
Soooooo Tom.......Are you claiming the Czar, who was overthrown by the Provincial Russian democratic government of 1917, lead by Alexander Kerensky, of the Socialist Party which you claim was actually communist?

You see....... every history book on the planet states the Bolshevik communist party overthrew the socialists after that.


Have you read this book? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
History for dummies.jpg
Although "communist" is being used in this case as a noun, it's actually the Communist Manifesto put together by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Lenin, heavily influenced by the manifesto, instituted a Marxist-Leninist regime which was called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (an English facsimile of the Russian name). Mao was also a proponent of communism, but split with the U.S.S.R. in the 1950s.

To say that someone is "a communist" is a political label. To say that someone is influenced and politically motivated by significant portions of Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist-Maoist (or any combination of) philosophies would be a more accurate description.
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot 3

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:02 am

landrew wrote: Although "communist" is being used in this case as a noun, it's actually the Communist Manifesto put together by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Lenin, heavily influenced by the manifesto, instituted a Marxist-Leninist regime which was called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (an English facsimile of the Russian name). Mao was also a proponent of communism, but split with the U.S.S.R. in the 1950s.
That's great. However Tom Palven's bizarre claim was that the 1917 Bolshevik Marxist Leninist communists and the 1948 Maoist communist party overthrew the royal empires of their respective countries.....which is complete crap.

The Bolsheviks ( "Big party" of communists) overthrew the Mensheviks ( "small party" of socialists) in the Provisional Government of 1917. The Czar had already abdicated.

The Maoist Communist party waited for the KMT Nationalist Party and Chinese Communist party in Mongolia, to exhaust themselves fighting the Japanese invaders and then attacked both, winning in 1948. The last emperor of China had already abdicated to Sun Yat-Sen in 1916.

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Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:39 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
landrew wrote: Although "communist" is being used in this case as a noun, it's actually the Communist Manifesto put together by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Lenin, heavily influenced by the manifesto, instituted a Marxist-Leninist regime which was called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (an English facsimile of the Russian name). Mao was also a proponent of communism, but split with the U.S.S.R. in the 1950s.
That's great. However Tom Palven's bizarre claim was that the 1917 Bolshevik Marxist Leninist communists and the 1948 Maoist communist party overthrew the royal empires of their respective countries.....which is complete crap.

The Bolsheviks ( "Big party" of communists) overthrew the Mensheviks ( "small party" of socialists) in the Provisional Government of 1917. The Czar had already abdicated.

The Maoist Communist party waited for the KMT Nationalist Party and Chinese Communist party in Mongolia, to exhaust themselves fighting the Japanese invaders and then attacked both, winning in 1948. The last emperor of China had already abdicated to Sun Yat-Sen in 1916.

Nit-picking, misleading, side-tracking, obfuscation and diversion, all off-topic horse manure. Kinda like the Harvard Professor Alan Dershowitz and Johnny Cochrane "Dream Team" coming up with "If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit" in the O.J. Simpson trial. Just lawyer BS, plain and simple, and the mainstream media ate it up.

Matt doing what Matt does best! :lol:
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Tom Palven is an idiot 4

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:32 am

Tom Palven wrote:Imho the communist revolutions in Russia and China that freed the serfs and threw off the yoke of elite royalty were great advances in human freedom
Matthew Ellard wrote: CHINA
What royalty did the Chinese Communists get rid of in 1948 Tom? How was the Chinese Nationalist party (Kuomintang) "royalty"? Do you know where China is Tom? Can you tell us which democratic party fled to Taiwan in 1948 ? (Hint : The Nationalist Party)
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Russia
Soooooo Tom.......Are you claiming the Czar, who was overthrown by the Provincial Russian democratic government of 1917, lead by Alexander Kerensky, of the Socialist Party which you claim was actually communist? You see....... every history book on the planet states the Bolshevik communist party overthrew the socialists after that.
Tom Palven wrote:Nit-picking, misleading, side-tracking, obfuscation and diversion, all off-topic horse manure. Just lawyer BS, plain and simple, and the mainstream media ate it up. Matt doing what Matt does best! :lol:
That's great Tom. You have just shown everyone that you know nothing about general history and don't mind posting fake news about history.

Why do you tell so many lies Tom Palven?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Ignorance is Strength

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:52 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:Imho the communist revolutions in Russia and China that freed the serfs and threw off the yoke of elite royalty were great advances in human freedom
Matthew Ellard wrote: CHINA
What royalty did the Chinese Communists get rid of in 1948 Tom? How was the Chinese Nationalist party (Kuomintang) "royalty"? Do you know where China is Tom? Can you tell us which democratic party fled to Taiwan in 1948 ? (Hint : The Nationalist Party)
Yogi bear 10.jpg
Russia
Soooooo Tom.......Are you claiming the Czar, who was overthrown by the Provincial Russian democratic government of 1917, lead by Alexander Kerensky, of the Socialist Party which you claim was actually communist? You see....... every history book on the planet states the Bolshevik communist party overthrew the socialists after that.
.

Why do you tell so many lies Tom Palven? [/color] :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yogi bear 7.jpg


Yada, yada, yada.

Nit-picking, misleading, side-tracking, obfuscation and diversion, all off-topic horse manure. Kinda like the Harvard Professor Alan Dershowitz and Johnny Cochrane "Dream Team" coming up with "If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit" in the O.J. Simpson trial. Just lawyer BS, plain and simple, and the mainstream media ate it up.

Matt doing what Matt does best!
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Tom Palven is an idiot 3

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:14 pm

Tom Palven wrote:Yada, yada, yada. Matt doing what Matt does best!
That's right Tom. I'm identifying your factual errors on a Skeptic Forum, that exists to identify factual errors in claims.
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Wonders Never Cease

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:18 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:Yada, yada, yada. Matt doing what Matt does best!
That's right Tom. I'm identifying your factual errors on a Skeptic Forum, that exists to identify factual errors in claims. Yogi bear 10.jpgYogi bear 7.jpg
Wow! You've managed to twist the meaning of what I've said into totally transparent cartoon bulldoody!

Is this part of an ASIS plot to make me look good, Matt? :lol:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:40 am

Tom Palven wrote:Wow! You've managed to twist the meaning of what I've said into totally transparent cartoon bulldoody!
You mean "Damn. A skeptic on the skeptic forum caught me telling lies again" :lol: :lol: