The need for interstellar travel.

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Gord
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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Gord » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:45 am

Phoenix76 wrote:...I must of had....

have

you ancient newbie bastard :glare:
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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:46 am

Gord wrote:Technically, I'm not sure he says much of anything.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hou0lU8WMgo
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Gord » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:49 am

LunaNik wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Is human extinction threatened?

Yes. By stupid people.

You'd think those would be the easiest to defeat.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:56 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:I hate to disappoint you, but light speed IS absolute.
Yeah? Well Australian scientists have very long arms. I'll let you know how the experiment goes. :D
Light speed slingshot.png
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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:13 am

Interstellar travel will be expensive for Earth, both in terms of time and materials.
But it would have no benefit except the peace of mind that humanity can survive elsewhere. But we know from all cases of colonization that the colonizing nations wanted a massive return on investment, something that simply can't be the case with interstellar colonization.
In solar system? sure.

But to leave the system, there must be some pressure that would make staying more expensive than leaving; in other words, unless earth is doomed I don't see humanity make the effort to equip a deep-space going fleet.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Poodle » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:47 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:To Poodle

Perhaps I should have said that the speed of light in vacuum is the fastest that anything can travel through space, and this cannot be exceeded. I think you are quibbling, though, and understand the principle. So shame on you for misleading.

Sorry you think me misleading, Lance - there was no such intent. It's simply a small gap which may (I'm not at all certain as the physics would be WAYYYYY over my head) be important in the distant future. It seems to me that the universe may very kindly have provided a tiny gap which allows something to travel through space faster than a massless object. It's a teeny weeny 'may', admittedly, and based upon nothing more than a gut feeling - not good scientific skepticism, I know - but it enables me to maintain a modicum of hope for humanity's future.

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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Hex » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:09 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Pending. Yeah.

I'm glad you agree and got the point. :roll:
Spoiler:
  TOYNBEE IDEA
IN KUBRICK'S 2001
RESURRECT DEAD
ON PLANET JUPITER  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwoaOJZ7Dfk

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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:26 am

Hex wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Pending. Yeah.

I'm glad you agree and got the point. :roll:

On this forum I assume nothing.
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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Hex » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:03 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:On this forum I assume nothing.

Your responses to comments tell a different story.
Spoiler:
  TOYNBEE IDEA
IN KUBRICK'S 2001
RESURRECT DEAD
ON PLANET JUPITER  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwoaOJZ7Dfk

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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:15 am

Hex wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:On this forum I assume nothing.

Your responses to comments tell a different story.

:roll:
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Hex » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:43 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote: :roll:

I take it at face value that you believe that you don't assume things on this forum, I'm just pointing out your history of commenting runs contrary to the Pollyanna version you've built for your ego.
Spoiler:
  TOYNBEE IDEA
IN KUBRICK'S 2001
RESURRECT DEAD
ON PLANET JUPITER  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwoaOJZ7Dfk

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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:51 pm

Gord wrote:
LunaNik wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Is human extinction threatened?

Yes. By stupid people.

You'd think those would be the easiest to defeat.

They breed too fast.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Gord » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:07 pm

Hex wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote: :roll:

I take it at face value that you believe that you don't assume things on this forum, I'm just pointing out your history of commenting runs contrary to the Pollyanna version you've built for your ego.

Good god, is that what he looks like inside his head?

Image

Now I understand!!
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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby OlegTheBatty » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:51 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Poodle

I hate to disappoint you, but light speed IS absolute. The rule says that nothing can travel through space faster than light. There is but one apparent exception, and that is apparent only. Space itself can expand faster than light. But nothing can travel through space faster.


While they are rather far-fetched, and mathematical without corroborating physical evidence, there are constructs that allow things to go around.


Oleg

Every year or so, some physicist comes up with some such idea. Generally, within a few months, some other physicist looks more deeply at the idea and acts as spoil sport, proving it impossible once more. So dies ideas of spinning black holes, hyperspace, wormholes, warp drive etc. Even the Bussard ramjet has been shot down.

Did you read this bit? "without corroborating physical evidence"
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:06 am

Oleg

Without physical evidence is only part of it. As I pointed out, even the theory for those ideas has now been discredited. For example, to make a wormhole big enough to pass a starship would require a vast amount of something called negative energy. Such a thing does not appear to exist, and if it did, we would have no way to muster the enormous quantities required.

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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby ElectricMonk » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:51 am

I guess he's musing about another medium than vacuum through which light could travel even faster - that wouldn't contradict Relativity.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby KevinLevites » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:08 am

As a means of interstellar travel, I came across a medical idea on the internet that seems to suggest an intermediate stance between suspended animation, multigenerational ships, and robtic ships that raise embryos at the end of the journey.

It seems that scientists are working on a synthetic womb for severely premature babies.

I imagine people who may be terminally ill downloading their minds into the hard drive, and have the ship start growning a clone and downloading the mind into the body, leaving--essentially--the same individual who started out.

The automated trip may take as arbitrarily as long as is needed, and--as was pointed out earlier--frozen embryos are easier to store than a whole frozen body.

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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Gord » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:39 am

Wait, what? I missed this earlier:

Lance Kennedy wrote:So dies ideas of spinning black holes, hyperspace, wormholes, warp drive etc. Even the Bussard ramjet has been shot down.

The idea of spinning black holes hasn't died.

Read "How fast to black holes spin" for some interesting thoughts on the matter: https://www.universetoday.com/109308/ho ... oles-spin/

Also, a black hole that doesn't spin is called a Schwartz... :| ...Schwartzenneger.... {!#%@}! Hang on, I'll be right back.

...

*cough* Let's try this again. Also, a black hole that doesn't spin is called a Schwarzschild black hole: http://www.daviddarling.info/encycloped ... _hole.html

It's the non-spinning Schwarzschild black hole that almost certainly doesn't exist outside of theory: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/d ... st.687672/

tiny-tim wrote:A non-rotating black hole is extremely unlikely …

even if one existed, it would only take one photon to hit the event horizon off-centre to give it angular momentum, ie start it rotating.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Gord » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:43 am

KevinLevites wrote:It seems that scientists are working on a synthetic womb for severely premature babies.

I hope they succeed in that. For one thing, it would help immensely in the debate about abortion if we could find a way to both (a) allow for the women to end her pregnancy, and (b) allow for the foetus to be raised by non-loving, religiously mean-spirited people into an extremely unhappy person living an extremely unfortunate life as one or more of the gods intended.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:37 pm

Gore

Sorry to be unclear. I did not mean no spinning black holes. I meant that it is not possible, even in theory, to use a spinning black hole as a means for faster than light travel.

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Re: The need for interstellar travel.

Postby Gord » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:43 am

Ohhh.

Well, okay then. Good. 'Cause otherwise...y'know. Wham-O.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE


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