Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Gord » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:19 am

Vhy a dock?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Sun May 29, 2016 10:33 pm

Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Poodle » Mon May 30, 2016 12:03 am

Wow - a lot of current scientific thinking edited together with pseudoreligious claptrap and then all confused together via the device of the horribly insistent repetition of four musical notes to make it appeal to idiots. Still - at least the video got put together, which is a remarkable feat as it happened in unreality.

There are actually a few gems in there, gorgeous, but I'll guarantee that you didn't understand a single one of them. They're just illusions anyway.

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Mon May 30, 2016 12:22 am

condescending science fan...how surprising...
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Poodle » Mon May 30, 2016 12:26 am

What? You thought it was good music?

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Fab Yolis » Mon May 30, 2016 12:40 am



Oh for {!#%@} sake.

Questions about the validity of the Big Bang Theory aside, if the universe came out of "nothing" then it wasn't really nothing was it.

All experience is "material" in some direct or indirect way. If you disagree with this statement, then provide even one example of an experience which dis-confirms it.

Re the measurement problem: An atom is not "spread out all over the place" until a "conscious observer decides to look at it". Rather, the range of positions where the atom could be located are described by a probability function which resembles a wave when graphed (hence the name "probability wave function"). This is NOT equivalent to saying that the atom exists "all over the place" until someone looks at it, and anyone who says otherwise is either taking you for a fool or lacks basic competence in both science and philosophy. This is especially true of anyone who says that only "conscious" beings can be observers in the quantum mechanical sense.

Re "the imaginary 3-D solid world": this asinine claim is based on a combination of false equivocation and fallacy of composition. Of course the subatomic world isn't solid in the molecular sense, for the same reason that it isn't fluid in the molecular sense - because this sort of solidity/fluidity is a molecular property which results from interactions at the molecular level. The sub-atomic world IS however "solid" in the sense of having 3 dimensions.

Re the Uncertainty Principle: It is the taking of a measurement, not "observation", which alters the quantum system that is being 'looked' at. This is because what we are trying to measure is so tiny relative to ourselves that our measurement techniques are bound to significantly affect what we are measuring.

Re "there are no objects, only relationships": An object IS a set of relationships, and again our inability to see an individual electron (owing to its tiny size and immense speed) does not necessarily mean that it is therefore an illusion. To say that things only exist in relation to the rest of the universe is about as trivial as you can get.

Re holographic projection of the brain: No the brain does not project a hologram "outside" itself, it creates a real-time internal model based on sensory input. It does NOT follow that 3-D holograms can construct 4-D images.

Re the multiverse: this is another BS pseudo-scientific interpretation of quantum mechanics which. like the idea of "conscious" observers "collapsing" probability wave functions, is based on a conflation of ontology and epistemology. It is an interpretation, NOT a "theory".

The only impressive thing about that video is how much manipulative pseudoscientific BS it manages to cram into 10 minutes.
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Poodle » Mon May 30, 2016 12:46 am

Oh dear, gorgeous. Now you've annoyed the Venerable one too. You're in trouble.

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Mon May 30, 2016 12:48 am

------wiki-----Albert Einstein is reported to have asked his fellow physicist and friend Niels Bohr, one of the founding fathers of quantum mechanics, whether he realistically believed that 'the moon does not exist if nobody is looking at it.' To this Bohr replied that however hard he (Einstein) may try, he would not be able to prove that it does, thus giving the entire riddle the status of a kind of an infallible conjecture—one that cannot be either proved or disproved.
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Mon May 30, 2016 12:51 am

Multiverse theory - Pomona College Astronomy

www.astronomy.pomona.edu/Projects/.../S ... verse.html
Multiverse Theory. "This new concept is, potentially, as drastic an enlargement of our cosmic perspective as the shift from pre-Copernican ideas to the realization ...
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Mon May 30, 2016 12:52 am

Mr. Smoot says otherwise...https://youtu.be/Chfoo9NBEow
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Mon May 30, 2016 12:57 am

all is not material...out of body travelers go through walls, roofs, and have experienced other dimensions most which are not physical...
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Fab Yolis » Mon May 30, 2016 1:14 am

gorgeous wrote:------wiki-----Albert Einstein is reported to have asked his fellow physicist and friend Niels Bohr, one of the founding fathers of quantum mechanics, whether he realistically believed that 'the moon does not exist if nobody is looking at it.' To this Bohr replied that however hard he (Einstein) may try, he would not be able to prove that it does, thus giving the entire riddle the status of a kind of an infallible conjecture—one that cannot be either proved or disproved.


This is exactly the sort of confusion between epistemology and ontology that I'm talking about. The fact that we cannot know if something exists until we observe it is trivial and tautological - there is nothing "conjectural" about it. The existence of a thing is not the same as our knowledge of its existence. Moreover, the fact that we can even have *knowledge about* the existence of something strongly suggests that it does exist independent of our knowledge about it, especially when what we know about that object remains causally consistent from one observation and observer to another. The inability to definitively prove or disprove that an object "exists" when no one is observing it indicates that the question itself is irrelevant, because "existence" has been pre-defined in a manner that makes it functionally indistinguishable from "non-existence".
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Fab Yolis » Mon May 30, 2016 1:18 am

gorgeous wrote:Mr. Smoot says otherwise...https://youtu.be/Chfoo9NBEow


Give us your own summary in your own words, I am not going to waste 20 minutes watching that thing.
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Poodle » Mon May 30, 2016 1:32 am

I can help there. Smoot is playing the 'How can you prove it?' game with his audience. He actually says at the start that he's going to do that. At no point in the entire presentation (which actually isn't a very good one) does he claim what gorgeous thinks he does. Mr. Smoot definitely does not "say otherwise". He merely points out the difficulties, sometimes, in establishing reality.

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:12 am

good stuff ...just as aliens have told people....there are gateways to other dimensions and universes....rt-----Through the wormhole: Spacecraft could survive black hole shortcut across the universe – study -------A spacecraft could survive a journey through a wormhole in the center of a black hole and pass into another universe despite its strong tidal forces, according to theoretical physicists.

A new study conducted by Diego Rubiera-Garcia, of Instituto de Astrofísica e Ciências do Espaço (IA) in Portugal, and his team, published in the journal Classical and Quantum Gravity reconsiders Einstein’s theory that black holes destroy everything within their reach.
---------------A wormhole is a theoretical passage through space-time that could create ‘shortcuts’, facilitating journeys across the universe. It was proposed by Albert Einstein and Nathan Rosen with the aid of the theory of general relativity in 1935.

The hypothetical structure was considered unstable, however, and at risk of collapsing on any particle passing through it at the point of ‘singularity’ – where the forces of gravity are at their most intense, and where time and space effectively end.
---------They examined various objects as an aggregation of points interconnected by physical or chemical interactions holding them together.

"Each particle of the observer follows a geodesic line determined by the gravitational field. Each geodesic feels a slightly different gravitational force, but the interactions among the constituents of the body could nonetheless sustain the body," Rubiera-Garcia said.

The study found that the time a light ray takes in making a round trip between any two nearby geodesics is always finite and causal despite the infinite (spatial) stretching caused by the unbounded tidal force.

This suggests that curvature divergences may not be as extreme as traditionally thought, the study states.
-------------------At the end of last year, NASA announced plans for further wormhole research with the view to carrying out robotic interstellar missions in the future.
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:20 am

gorgeous wrote:A new study conducted by Diego Rubiera-Garcia, of Instituto de Astrofísica e Ciências do Espaço (IA) in Portugal, and his team, published in the journal Classical and Quantum Gravity reconsiders Einstein’s theory that black holes destroy everything within their reach.


Here is a summary of that paper. It does not mean that pixies exist.

Black holes might not be dead-ends after all
http://phys.org/news/2016-06-black-holes-dead-ends.html

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:26 am

no one mentioned pixies...just interdimensional travel...
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:39 am

gorgeous wrote:no one mentioned pixies...just interdimensional travel...
The article didn't mention inter-dimensional travel once.

Why do you lie so much?

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:43 am

....rt-----Through the wormhole: Spacecraft could survive black hole shortcut across the universe – study -------A spacecraft could survive a journey through a wormhole in the center of a black hole and pass into another universe despite its strong tidal forces
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:46 am

wiki-----A wormhole or Einstein–Rosen bridge is a hypothetical topological feature that would fundamentally be a shortcut connecting two separate points in spacetime. A wormhole, in theory, might be able to connect extremely far distances such as a billion light years or more, short distances such as a few feet, different universes, and different points in time. A wormhole is much like a tunnel with two ends, each at separate points in spacetime.----------------------as an alien said reality and time are not what we think they are...
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Fab Yolis » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:55 am

gorgeous wrote:wiki-----A wormhole or Einstein–Rosen bridge is a hypothetical topological feature that would fundamentally be a shortcut connecting two separate points in spacetime. A wormhole, in theory, might be able to connect extremely far distances such as a billion light years or more, short distances such as a few feet, different universes, and different points in time. A wormhole is much like a tunnel with two ends, each at separate points in spacetime.----------------------as an alien said reality and time are not what we think they are...


Do you know what "hypothetical" and "in theory" mean?
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:05 am

yes...what scientists believe could be....-------------dailygalaxy---- In 2016, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) could unveil whole new dimensions, help explain dark matter and dark energy, of which we have no understanding but which together make up 95 percent of the universe. Late last year, before CERN shut down its LHC for a technical break, two separate teams of scientists said they had discovered anomalies that could possibly hint at the existence of a mysterious new particle that could prove the existence of extra space-time dimensions, or explain the enigma of dark matter, scientists say.
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:07 am

they are ploddingly slow but learning what mystics and out of body travelers have always known...
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Fab Yolis » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:08 am

gorgeous wrote:yes...what scientists believe could be


And do you know what "believe" and "could be" mean?
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:10 am

:lol:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:10 am

it means they have faith and believe in pixies...
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:11 am

Funny it should be hiding here when there's a lot of action going on in the "Seth department". ;)
.

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:59 am

gorgeous wrote:it means they have faith and believe in pixies...
That would be you Gorgeous.

Why are you hiding from the Seth debunking for fun and pleasure in the other thread? You claim to have the answers. What is scaring you off?

What was that? :roll:

No, Gorgeous, you can't spam in that debate. You have to actually answer direct questions.
:lol:

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Azania » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:03 pm

Poodle wrote:I can help there. Smoot is playing the 'How can you prove it?' game with his audience. He actually says at the start that he's going to do that. At no point in the entire presentation (which actually isn't a very good one) does he claim what gorgeous thinks he does. Mr. Smoot definitely does not "say otherwise". He merely points out the difficulties, sometimes, in establishing reality.


You establish the real by being real that's the only way to know the reality. It is definitely nothing mental, physical or material, these things are only conceived out of ones imagination - you cannot imagine the real.

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Poodle » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:34 am

Although I appreciate your sentiment, Azania, I think your brush is a tad too broad. While it is true that something which is real cannot be imaginary, I can certainly imagine that which is real.

Gorgeous, on the other hand, imagines she knows what real means and cannot imagine that what she picks up on her favourite woo sites (which she imagines tell her the truth) is BS.

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:03 pm

Scientists show future events decide what happens in the past

www.digitaljournal.com/science/experime ... .../434829 ---------An experiment by Australian scientists has proven that what happens to particles in the past is only decided when they are observed and measured in the future. Until such time, reality is just an abstraction. -------------Quantum laws tend to contradict common sense. At that level, one thing can be two different things simultaneously and be at two different places at the same time. Two particles can be entangled and, when one changes its state, the other will also do so immediately, even if they are at opposite ends of the universe – seemingly acting faster than the speed of light.
Particles can also tunnel through solid objects, which should normally be impenetrable barriers, like a ghost passing through a wall. And now scientists have proven that, what is happening to a particle now, isn't governed by what has happened to it in the past, but by what state it is in the future – effectively meaning that, at a subatomic level, time can go backwards. ---------------------------------and aliens have said that time can be slowed down,speeded up and stopped...
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Poodle » Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:25 pm

Have you tried that quantum wall yet?

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:26 pm

^^^^one thing can be two different things simultaneously and be at two different places at the same time.------Particles can also tunnel through solid objects, which should normally be impenetrable barriers, ------------just as we have been told we have multiple lives at the same time in different dimensions.....and again shows solid objects are not really solid....
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:39 am

gorgeous wrote:^^^^one thing can be two different things simultaneously and be at two different places at the same time.------Particles can also tunnel through solid objects, which should normally be impenetrable barriers, ------------just as we have been told we have multiple lives at the same time in different dimensions.....and again shows solid objects are not really solid....


You haven't got one thing right in this entire post.

Can you identify the particle you are referring to? What is it's unique characteristic compared to, say, a brick wall?

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Poodle » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:39 am

I'm becoming impatient, gorgeous. I gave you a very simple experiment and you have not yet reported the results. I'll try again.

Have you walked through a solid wall yet?

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:45 am

Gorgeous 1jpg.jpg
Gorgeous 2jpg.jpg


You could shoot any particle through both her ears and nothing will block it.
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:21 pm

Ah, the Gotcha particle!
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:47 am

ahem
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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:49 am

gorgeous wrote:ahem
....and? :lol:

Poodle asked you to attempt to walk through a wall. Have you done this yet?

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Re: Is anything really solid or just an illusion?

Postby gorgeous » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:54 am

when out of body...went through the roof of my house....not really solid...energy passing thru energy...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.


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