Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

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Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Parrot » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:00 pm

I like to look through woo material and figure out where all the claims are coming from. I ran into this little tidbit that's making me scratch my head a little. It's called the "DNA Phantom Effect". Here's a link:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienc ... tica04.htm

It's really technical, but from what I can gather from reading this and other explanations, what happened is that they shone a laser and measured how the light scattered. Then they put some DNA in front of the laser, and ran the experiment again, and saw how the DNA scattered the light.

But when they took the DNA away, for some mystical reason it still continued to have an effect on how the light was scattered.

If I understand correctly, they say that this measures a "subtle energy field", which sounds like a complete nonsense use of the word "energy" to me. But I'm still not sure that I completely understand all the background science involved in understanding what they're talking about.

I also read somebody's claim that they used "modulated laser light" in order to actually change DNA, and they turned a frog embryo into a salamander embryo.

I still haven't found reference to that experiment... but I'm pretty doubtful about that claim.

I'm hoping there are people here knowledgeable about these fields of study who can provide some perspective on this claimed DNA Phantom Effect.

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby vanderpoel » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:13 pm

Could the effect simply be an interpretation of a negative after-effect in the observer?
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Parrot » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:24 pm

vanderpoel wrote:Could the effect simply be an interpretation of a negative after-effect in the observer?


I personally have no idea. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the theories involved or the kinds of machinery used.

Do you have any expertise in this area?

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Squishua » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:04 am

My B.S. Detector says "BS!" The site mentions this "effect" is part of the "subtle energies" and "healings" observed to have taken place. Even the experimental setup is poorly described (and indicative of BS).

If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck...
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Parrot » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:11 am

Squishua wrote:My B.S. Detector says "BS!" The site mentions this "effect" is part of the "subtle energies" and "healings" observed to have taken place. Even the experimental setup is poorly described (and indicative of BS).

If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck...


LOL - well, I think all our BS detectors are going off like crazy. I'd love to nail down something a little more concrete to criticize this though. Was the methodology poor? Was the equipment not suited to the task at hand? Is there perhaps some other well known and mundane property of physics that could explain these results?

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:44 am

Or is the reporter of this effect a liar, fraud and swindler?

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Squishua » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:35 am

Parrot wrote:Was the methodology poor? Was the equipment not suited to the task at hand? Is there perhaps some other well known and mundane property of physics that could explain these results?

The explanation of the experimental protocol is absurdly lacking. It doesn't even state exactly what photon properties are measured or how. All in all, a rather nonsensical way to describe any real experiment. It reads like science gossip written by people who don't know what they're talking about.

In other words, it needs improvement just to be intelligible.
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Parrot » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:34 am

Squishua wrote:The explanation of the experimental protocol is absurdly lacking. It doesn't even state exactly what photon properties are measured or how. All in all, a rather nonsensical way to describe any real experiment. It reads like science gossip written by people who don't know what they're talking about.

In other words, it needs improvement just to be intelligible.


That makes sense. Are you a professional in this field or just well read?

And what about those graphs? What exactly are they supposed to show? Can you tell?

I know they're supposed to represent the results of the phantom DNA, but I don't understand the reference to the "channel number" and why does the scale of the "photons per channel" keep changing in strange ways?

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby landrew » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:54 am

I'm aware of similar work which hints at a vast sea of potential new knowledge which we may some day acquire. But first the noisy, negativists will need to be a bit overwhelmed by such evidence, that they would fail to dismiss, ridicule or ignore. The good news is that attitudes are changing; old heresies are being given new consideration, and perhaps the critical mass will some day be reached.
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Squishua » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:28 am

landrew wrote:I'm aware of similar work which hints at a vast sea of potential new knowledge which we may some day acquire. But first the noisy, negativists will need to be a bit overwhelmed by such evidence, that they would fail to dismiss, ridicule or ignore. The good news is that attitudes are changing; old heresies are being given new consideration, and perhaps the critical mass will some day be reached.

Yes, just wait until those straw men negativists are confronted with all the imaginary evidence in the future!

It must be medication time.
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Blacksamwell » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:35 pm

landrew wrote:The good news is that attitudes are changing; old heresies are being given new consideration, and perhaps the critical mass will some day be reached.


You mean critical mass of evidence, right? That's all that's missing. Good, repeatable, peer reviewed, evidence.

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby 4sure » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:44 pm

That article is total nonsense. First, I would like to know their method of obtaining the DNA. Second, did they just simply add it to the cuvette and watch it scatter light and then aspirate it out of the cuvette and watch the residual DNA that is left behind scatter the light and call that "DNA Phantom Effect".

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby landrew » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:00 pm

Blacksamwell wrote:
landrew wrote:The good news is that attitudes are changing; old heresies are being given new consideration, and perhaps the critical mass will some day be reached.


You mean critical mass of evidence, right? That's all that's missing. Good, repeatable, peer reviewed, evidence.

Yes, which comes from a critical mass of investigators willing to weigh it.
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Gord » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:18 pm

landrew wrote:I'm aware

I disbelieve illusion.

/roll 1d20
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Flash » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:51 pm

There are two Russian guys involved; Vladimir Poponin and Peter Gariaev. The former seems to have registered a company in California with the product "unknown". In other words, no one knows what the company does.
Here is what Wiki says about it:
The Gariaev (Garyaev) group (1994)[7] has proposed a theory of the Wave-based Genome where the DNA-wave functions as a Biocomputer. They suggest (1) that there are genetic "texts", similar to natural context-dependent texts in human language; (2) that the chromosome apparatus acts simultaneously both as a source and receiver of these genetic texts, respectively decoding and encoding them; (3) that the chromosome continuum acts like a dynamical holographic grating, which displays or transduces weak laser light and solitonic electro-acoustic fields.[8]

The distribution of the character frequency in genetic texts is fractal, so the nucleotides of DNA molecules are able to form holographic pre-images of biostructures. This process of "reading and writing" the very matter of our being manifests from the genome's associative holographic memory in conjunction with its quantum nonlocality. Rapid transmission of genetic information and gene-expression unite the organism as holistic entity embedded in the larger Whole. The system works as a biocomputer—a wave biocomputer.[9][10]

Gariaev reports as of 2007 that this work in Russia is being actively suppressed.[11]


fract.org has published an open letter from Peter Gariaev, here is a little quote;
In particular, we have found it possible to regenerate endocrine glands in animals. By the same means, we have significantly curbed the aging process in human cells and even grown new adult human teeth in individuals who had lost them.

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't these claims quite extraordinary. They don't publish him any more in Russia and as for the new teeth I've got to find him quickly.
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby kokopelli314 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:49 pm

Heres the website and method: Not much there
http://www.emergentmind.org/gariaev06.htm

Figure captions for Figs. 1a-1d: Appearance of a “DNA phantom” when using a correlation laser spectroscopy (Spectrometer "Malvern") method.



a. The background spectrometer readings before introduction of a water solution of a DNA sample.

b. DNA sample in the form of a water solution (3ml, 1mg/ml in a quartz cuvette) is inserted into the spectrometer. The dynamical spectrum of fluctuations of DNA molecules is registered.

c. The cuvette with the DNA sample is removed from the spectrometer. One would naturally expect to see the background spectrometer readings, as in the 1-st figure. Instead, however, the spectrometer registers the presence of certain fine structures, a “DNA phantom”, in the same location where the cuvette with the DNA sample initially was.

d. The spectrometer readings in 10 minutes after the removal of the cuvette with the DNA sample. After the cuvette part of the spectrometer was cleared by gaseous nitrogen, the spectrometer started giving the background readings, like in the Figure 1a. above, but within 5-8 minutes a “phantom” was registered again. This procedure was repeated many times, and each time a “DNA phantom” would return. Approximately in one month the “phantoms” gradually disappeared, or ceased to be registered, shifting beyond limits of sensitivity of the spectrometer.


The experiment should be repeated

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Major Malfunction » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:02 pm

Approximately in one month the “phantoms” gradually disappeared, or ceased to be registered, shifting beyond limits of sensitivity of the spectrometer.

Cap'n, the spectreometer phantomultiplier tubes canna take it any longer!

Yawn. Sounds like your typical psuedoscience technobabble scientyfiction mish-mash.

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Take a few mooshine distilled science articles from popular news media about DNA, lasers, quantum entanglement, stem cells. Grind to paste with mortar and pestle. Apply liberally to sore spots and dress with a generous lashing of wishes.
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby alwayslearning » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:58 am

I think the proof of this effect is perhaps less important than the implications it has for us as humans. I have recently read a few of Gregg Bradens books, and he presents this material within a context that lends itself more towards application in everyday life, rather than cognitive understanding alone. In short his hypothisis is something like this;

1) An energy field that is ever present and which permeates all matter, exists.

-interesting viewing (related?... I leave it to you.) - http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/thunderb ... -the-gods/

2) Our DNA and this energy field, are in some way linked.

3) Our emotional state has an affect on the structure of our DNA's double helix.

-Gregg suggests that during the experience of Love the helix elongates, and during the experience of Fear it contracts, much like a spring being stretched or compressed. Another author I have read (Bruce Lipton) suggests that during any experience, leaning more towards Love, the human body is more able to heal and grow, while this capacity is lessened by the fight or flight response, which is activated to some degree by any perceptions of threat, be they physical or psychological, and the experience is thus leaning more towards Fear.

I am not a scientist, though I do understand the importance of a stringent scientific process. For the scientific community defend the spheres of intellectualism (and therefore also the layman) from crack pot ideas, while simultaneously, albeit temporarily, insulating them from ideas which may elevate these same spheres (and therefore benefit the layman). This is due to the complexity of the process itself, for when something that is 'true' is postulated, it can be a very long time before the scientific community agree that it may be stated as such.
I believe Gregg's above premises, are true, and that the existing sciences just time need to catch up, or simply become more accessible. Here's why:

I would like to note here, that I am not religious, though I do understand the importance of living with faith. It is not so important what you place your faith in, as much as it is, that you have done so. For placing your faith in something, gives life meaning and/or purpose. I would say that a scientist places faith in the idea that engaging in research will benifit humanity (though this is not always the case ie, atomic bombs); an athiest places faith in the idea that their own free will is the greatest force in their life (and this should be appreciated as we all eventually die, but is limited life an excuse for indulgence?); the religious place thier faith in god (though what each individual understands as 'god', will affect the effect of placing ones faith here, and beware hypocracy).
The point I am trying to make here, is that to live with faith, whatever it is in, gives one a sense of satisfaction, as to, their life having value. From this satisfaction, contentment within our being arises, as often as we choose to feel it. And from this contentment, a more harmonious existence within the world, and therefore, experience of life is possbile. If harmony is not your experience, examine where your faith lies, you can change that, but if its someone elses fault... you're at their mercy.

This is philosophy, and all philosophy can be challenged, but I stand by this as I have lived it. I have seen the change in myself and the change in my friends and family who have engaged with this stuff. I have also (out of no where) developed the capacity to defend this philosophy. I have never lost an arguement, though I have on occassion reached a point where my, and the person I am conversing with's argument are correct, or logically sound. I would call these places, paradoxes, where black and white are clearly thus and the same thing, the only difference being in the perspective taken of them.

Life is perespective. And your perspective simply 'is'. Your judgments of it are your choice.

Einstein said "You will never solve a problem at the same level of consciousness that created it"
I beleive what he possbily meant was that, you will never solve a problem that has become problematic to your being, or that has upset your emotional state (of mind/of being). Gregg's postulations support this idea, and extends the implications beyond ones self, so that the act of being at peace, in and of itself, actually promotes peace. Or to say it differently, you can balance yourself with the rest of existence, and that by doing this, the rest of existence will seemingly offer you greater support. Seemingly because without your free will, nothing will change... from your perspective.
Your sixth sense, is your sense of balance. And balance is the basis of Jung's 'Individuation' or process toward good mental health. It is the basis of yoga, or path toward healthy living. And it is a concept that, if adopted into everyday life by the many, might just mitigate the impact humanity is having on this planet.

But as for phantom DNA, I don't know:?:, but I like implications... :D

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby xouper » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:27 pm

alwayslearning wrote:I have recently read a few of Gregg Bradens books,

I have several of Gregg's books. Gregg Braden is not a credible source for anything scientific. His scientific claims are so faulty I have no problem putting him in the crackpot category.

Clarification: I am not saying Gregg's scientific claims are wrong because he is a crackpot. To do that would be the fallacy of argumentum ad hominem. I do not do that here. Instead I am saying Gregg's claims do not stand up to proper scientific scrutiny and from that I conclude he is a crackpot.

For example, my favorite "scientific" claim from Gregg is that the Earth's "vibration level" has increased in recent decades and is still increasing. He is referring to the Schumann Resonance and his claim is flat out wrong. The frequency is still approximately 7.8 Hz today and not 11 Hz as Gregg claims. Apparently he just pulls this {!#%@} out of his ass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby citizenschallenge » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:28 pm

Parrot wrote:It's really technical, but from what I can gather from reading this and other explanations, what happened is that they shone a laser and measured how the light scattered. Then they put some DNA in front of the laser, and ran the experiment again, and saw how the DNA scattered the light.

But when they took the DNA away, for some mystical reason it still continued to have an effect on how the light was scattered.

If I understand correctly, they say that this measures a "subtle energy field", which sounds like a complete nonsense use of the word "energy" to me. But I'm still not sure that I completely understand all the background science involved in understanding what they're talking about.

Hmmm, sounds to me like the scientific foundation for Homeopathy may just have been tapped ;)
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby landrew » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:51 pm

citizenschallenge wrote:
Parrot wrote:It's really technical, but from what I can gather from reading this and other explanations, what happened is that they shone a laser and measured how the light scattered. Then they put some DNA in front of the laser, and ran the experiment again, and saw how the DNA scattered the light.

But when they took the DNA away, for some mystical reason it still continued to have an effect on how the light was scattered.

If I understand correctly, they say that this measures a "subtle energy field", which sounds like a complete nonsense use of the word "energy" to me. But I'm still not sure that I completely understand all the background science involved in understanding what they're talking about.

Hmmm, sounds to me like the scientific foundation for Homeopathy may just have been tapped ;)
water memory, light memory, wow wie. . . or should that have been woo wie

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It's either silly nonsense or undiscovered science. No hope for an answer until you try to weigh the evidence scientifically. Wait, what am I saying? There's nothing there, 'cause its not there. Every good skeptic knows that.
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby rickoshay85 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:05 pm

Parrot wrote:I like to look through woo material and figure out where all the claims are coming from. I ran into this little tidbit that's making me scratch my head a little. It's called the "DNA Phantom Effect". Here's a link:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienc ... tica04.htm

It's really technical, but from what I can gather from reading this and other explanations, what happened is that they shone a laser and measured how the light scattered. Then they put some DNA in front of the laser, and ran the experiment again, and saw how the DNA scattered the light.

But when they took the DNA away, for some mystical reason it still continued to have an effect on how the light was scattered.

If I understand correctly, they say that this measures a "subtle energy field", which sounds like a complete nonsense use of the word "energy" to me. But I'm still not sure that I completely understand all the background science involved in understanding what they're talking about.

I also read somebody's claim that they used "modulated laser light" in order to actually change DNA, and they turned a frog embryo into a salamander embryo.

I still haven't found reference to that experiment... but I'm pretty doubtful about that claim.

I'm hoping there are people here knowledgeable about these fields of study who can provide some perspective on this claimed DNA Phantom Effect.


Shone a laser on what? DNA isn't a visible thing... It's just the result of a chemical process
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Major Malfunction » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:39 am

rickoshay85 wrote:Shone a laser on what? DNA isn't a visible thing... It's just the result of a chemical process

Watson and Crick would disagree.
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Zebbler » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:09 am

Hi, so glad I bumped into this thread.
Believe it or not, this whole thing has resurrected itself as "recent news".
And while I certainly sense that a lot of it is BS and completely unfiltered new age propaganda, I wonder if there's someone here who could either put a nail in the coffin of this whole debate or prove fertile grounds for further exploration of this.

http://www.emergentmind.org/gariaev06.htm
This guy "Gariaev", is he a real scientist? Did he perform legitimate experiments?
If yes, has there been any peer review? Or subsequent studies to test his theories/outcomes?

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby regex12 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:51 pm

I don't know if this DNA Phantom Effect this is real or not, but I also don't know enough about the researchers making these claims to criticize their results as "BS". I'll admit that there's a lot of BS and pseudoscience claiming amazing results for mostly unreproducible experiments. But why do posters in this thread ask simple questions while at the same time already claiming, "BS!". We shouldn't criticize until you've run the experiments yourself, compared with peers and reproduced the experiments to arrive at the exact results or at least within an allowable margin of error. A "BS" alarm is only as good as the education you've received. Why are some of us so threatened by amazing claims? Who cares? You either believe these researchers or you don't and leave it at that. But judging their work and calling it BS is injust. Would it be so bad if; for example, the "theory" of evolution was suddenly proved "wrong!" despite the body of evidence in our learned halls of education? It's happened before, science books are re-written--there, done--now we know more. The wonder of science is to not prove to others how much you know and to boast how finely tuned your BS alarm is. The wonder of science (what I tell my kids) is to be curious about everything, form your theory, question it, prove it and then ask another question.

Again, I don't know if this DNA phantom thing is real and--yeah! It sounds absurd, very skeptical. The quantum world continues to defy our sensibilities. But if more researchers took this on and proved it, how amazing is that?

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby acquila_romana » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:14 am

Wow... The older I become, the more I am becoming less and less amused by what I call "The Chronic Debunker Syndrome".

In all but 3 or 4 of the replies I've read so far, not a single one of you "skeptics":
1) Ever even considered the possibility that perhaps all or part of this experiment may have actually produced some new, useful and previously unknown information towards our extremely limited understanding of our universe
2) Could not, or did not produce a single shred of evidence to counter the claims of the scientists who conducted these experiments.
3) Didn't even flinch before jumping straight into a junior high level (at best) standard issue response of ridicule and condescending arrogance.

Me, I haven't the slightest idea what the validity of this experiment is. Could be, might not be. Fact is, I haven't even taken the time to check yet...

But before you instinctively snap into that same old mindless gang rape monkey f*** mode, let me make one small point to all of you
On what foundation is your ridiculous arrogant ego based off of??? Science? The scientific method, which you've so clearly shown you do not need to bother using since you apparently already know the answer?

Science, as it presently stands, can only account for less than 15% of our entire universe!!!!!

However, in contrast to what I am reading here, I would also like to point out that the overwhelming majority of science's greatest minds, have also been amongst the most humble, curious and imaginative minds that I have ever had the privilege to have learned from.

Moral of this rant: DON'T BE A PRICK, AND DON'T PRETEND YOU KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THAT WHICH YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND!

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Pyrrho » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:42 am

That last line is pretty much why we "skeptics" don't like it when people assert the miraculous when nothing else has been established. The tired old appeal to ignorance can be frustrating. Worse, it reinforces ignorance and stupidity.
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:49 am

acquila_romana wrote:Wow... The older I become, the more I am becoming less and less amused by what I call "The Chronic Debunker Syndrome".

landrew? Is that you? Hiii! :wave:

On what foundation is your ridiculous arrogant ego based off of???

Experience? I think that's it. Yeah, experience.

Not necessarily a good source of information, but it's a start.

DON'T BE A PRICK

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Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:09 pm

When they took the DNA away they weighed the light and it was missing 26 grams.


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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:14 pm

:hmm:

Y'know, one day, if I'm still alive, I'll probably come back and reread that last post of mine and think, "Wow, I posted some really smart stuff back then!" But I probably won't be able to think it in those exact words 'cause by then I'll be typing in crayon and have only 16 letters remaining in my knowledge of the alphabet.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

BlushNine
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby BlushNine » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:02 am

Skeptic already has info on these guys.

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=16540

Lookup Institute of Heartmath Science. They are the woowoo group pushing new age "your heart has a mind" crap. I think Scientology may have some competitors.

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby bioprofessor » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:17 am

I am a professor of biology, and I had never heard of phantom DNA until my mother suggested I look into it. It is complete nonsense. There hasn't been any coverage of this "breakthrough" in the global science community. Not a single respectable peer reviewed journal will publish their results, so they've published them on something called mentalgatecoach.com. This is pseudoscience at its most ridiculous. I realize that my opinion online doesn't mean much, but before you buy into it ask yourself why not a single credible biologist anywhere in the world is excited about their "discovery". It's because it's such nonsense it doesn't even warrant an answer. Unless, of course, every biologist on the planet is part of a conspiracy, and if you believe that, then you have no idea how much scientists disagree with each other.

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby clarsct » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:05 am

Ok.

First, what wavelength is this laser at?

Are we measuring IR, Near IR, UV, Visible light? Are they measuring at a wavelength DNA will absorb or scatter at? Is this a Rayleigh scattering?

What kind of DNA was used? Rat, human? Of what length? Different length molecules will scatter or absorb at different wavelengths. For that matter why not use Absorbance or %T? Why use scattering? How was the sample prepared?

The article says the DNA was removed? Was it replaced with a different Cuvette? Or was the one washed somehow? How was the instrumentation calibrated? Was it calibrated between runs? How many runs were performed, and in how many was the scattering observed?

This isn't even a scientific paper.

Basically, yes, it is hard to refute because it lacks an incredible amount of detail. I am a chemist and I couldn't even replicate this experiment, due to simple lack of information.
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby ramblingtwreck » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:51 am

If your interested ...

Lisa J. Miller, Ph.D., a graduate of Yale University, serving as Director of Clinical Psychology and Associate Professor at Columbia University, editor and president of professional journals and organizations, recently published (2012) - through the Oxford University Press - her compilation of research in this field.

In it she references this particular experiment, related work at DARPA and many other associated findings, all of which support the existence of a bioenergetic information field that retains certain nonlocal effects (imprint/memory) for extended periods of time.

Google "DNA nonlocal effect Oxford".

The ebook, priced at $55, indicates that "Postmaterial spiritual psychology posits that consciousness can contribute to the unfolding of material events and that the human brain can detect broad, non-material communications."

Other works will pop up too.

So what may be woo to some, is clearly very serious science to some real pros in the field.

Food for thought.

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Lance Kennedy
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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:12 pm

No. It is just woo.

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Poodle » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:24 pm

At $55 for an ebook, it's bloody expensive woo to boot.
Maybe there's something in it (the money, that is). I'm sure we could all get together and produce dozens of woo ebooks to sell at $10. Undercut, take over the market, rule the world.

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:39 pm

The most lucrative scam, though, is religion. Start a new religion and you get the contributions of your followers, and also lots of sex. L. Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith both did really well for the rest of their lives (a short rest of his life for Smith, who got lynched.) I think the same applied to Mohammed also,

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Re: Ever Hear Of The "DNA Phantom Effect"?

Postby Gord » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:37 am

ramblingtwreck wrote:Lisa J. Miller

Is this the same Lisa J. Miller who co-hosted the series Psychic Kids?

Psychic/Medium Chip Coffey and clinical psychologist/director Dr. Lisa Miller help psychic children and their families cope, validate, empower and understand psychic abilities.

:facepalm:

Please say no please say no please say no please say no.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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