Seeds of Science. GM is good.

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bobbo_the_Pragmatist
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:28 pm

Anything new, Bobbo, is novel and requires a different assessment. //// Its NOT NOVEL: at all.

We simply do not know what the level of risk is. //// BS.

I do not think it matters, though. /// What is "it"? My "it" the drilling for oil in the Arctic matters quite a bit.

I doubt that any such exploration will happen. It would be expensive, politically unpopular and unnecessary. /// The relevant issue is: how profitable could it be. But: the intervention of Greenpeace may save us.
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:32 am

Bobbo

I am sure the oil companies have as much contempt for Greenpeace as I have. If Greenpeace opposes, they are MORE, not less likely to persist.

After all, the Japanese government are on record saying that as long as Greenpeace opposes whaling, they will kill whales.

No one likes being told what they cannot do.

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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby ElectricMonk » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:34 am

Re: fracking/coal

Nope.
It has reduced import of oil from overseas at significant local environmental damage.
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:43 am

Yes, EM

But it has also reduced the amount of coal burned and subsequent greenhouse gas emissions.

It may surprise you to know that the USA is the world's leading producer of oil and gas from domestic sources. Imports were needed because so much oil was burned. But fracking increased domestic production.

Before fracking, oil sold for over $US 100 per barrel. It dropped to half that. Ditto gas. Cheap oil and gas gets used where expensive oil does not. So oil and gas became used for a lot of operations where previously coal was burned.

I am aware that fracking is another one of those things targeted by environmental activist idiots, and the fact that it is reducing greenhouse gas emissions is very embarrassing for those morons. As with previous times where they were proven to be in error, that just spurs their idiocy to greater heights of enthusiasm. Don't get sucked in.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/20 ... e4b2fb3535

This article discusses the drop in carbon emissions by the USA. It gives the reason as gas from shale burned instead of coal. But the reason that gas is now available in large amounts is fracking.

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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:52 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Bobbo

I am sure the oil companies have as much contempt for Greenpeace as I have. If Greenpeace opposes, they are MORE, not less likely to persist.

PR flack.
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby ElectricMonk » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:08 am

If fracking is so great, why does NZ not do it except on a tiny scale that is under criticism?

Germany has decided that it is too dangerous.

And even if it was safe, it uses up way too much water - water that is urgently needed in many places of the US where fracking is taking place.
It's a pretty terrible technology.
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:15 am

or..... its a "great" technology....we just don't have the water to run it. but it is a choice: do you want drinking water for yourself or gas for your car?
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby ElectricMonk » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:31 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:or..... its a "great" technology....we just don't have the water to run it. but it is a choice: do you want drinking water for yourself or gas for your car?


gas is a liquid, so you can drink it, right?
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:39 am

gas is as good to drink, as water is for cars to go.
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:29 pm

Monsanto World Headquarters just a few miles from here. Never see any protestors.

And I really never thought plants would have their own anti-vax cliche. :roll:
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:34 pm

On fracking.

Like everything else in the world, it has its hazards. They are confined to shallow strata. Most oil fields are a bit deeper, and fracking is quite safe. It should not be used for shallow strata (though it has been) due to minor hazards of ground water contamination and earth tremor generation.

None of which alters the fact that fracking generates more oil and gas fields and reduces burning of coal, thus reducing carbon emissions. As with anything, it is all about balance.

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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:27 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote: As with anything, it is all about balance.

Bigger thumbs are needed on the Green Energy side of the scale......if you have any balance at all.
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:52 pm

There are too many ignorant thumbs already. It is not a matter of whether the thumb is green or not. It is a matter of whether it belongs to someone who knows what he or she is doing.

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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:11 pm

I know where your thumb is.............

Its not valid "in my opinion" to approve of fracking because it is less polluting than coal when green has near zero.
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:38 am

I am being practical. Changing from coal to gas is easy and is happening all the time. Changing to other alternatives is not necessarily easy or financially possible in the short term.

Incidentally, I came across a novel criticism of wind power recently.
You probably know that manufacturing cement involves massive CO2 emissions. So anything that uses a lot of cement is climate unfriendly. Wind power involves tens of thousands of wind towers, each of which sits on an ENORMOUS slab of cement to hold it in place.

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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:15 am

Lance: yeah....I agree it will take a mix of sources for quite some time....but...we have to change our mindset.
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:35 am

Cement absorbs CO2 when binding.

Lance, that is a weak argument, as all power plants but solar are build using cement.
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:59 am

Was not my argument, but interesting. Nothing is perfect. Wind and solar are the fashion, but both have drawbacks.

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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:06 am

Forgive me for thinking you support the argument you bother to post.
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Re: Seeds of Science. GM is good.

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:55 pm

EM

This is a discussion forum. I often post stuff I think is interesting and possibly worth discussing. If I say it comes from something other than myself, it may not be my opinion. Sometimes I am interested in what others say in order to educate myself. Sometimes it might be something I am thinking of taking a position on. Unless I make an argument, it is probably not wise to assume.


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