Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

How should we think about weird things?
Genaro
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Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby Genaro » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:58 pm

HOW TO DEBUNK JUST ABOUT ANYTHING

http://www.skepticalaboutskeptics.org/examining-skeptics/daniel-drasin-zen-and-the-art-of-debunkery/

My personal favorite:

• Characterize any phenomenon as “paranormal” whose actual degree of normalcy cannot be gauged in the first place due to perverse social taboos that effectively prohibit its open discussion and systematic investigation. For example, if half the population talked to their deceased great uncles twice a week, it would be considered normal, not paranormal. But how can we possibly determine whether they do or they don’t?

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Re: Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby Poodle » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:07 pm

Sore arse?

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Gord
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Re: Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby Gord » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:08 pm

Genaro wrote:For example, if half the population talked to their deceased great uncles twice a week, it would be considered normal, not paranormal.

No it wouldn't.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/paranormal

paranormal

Denoting events or phenomena such as telekinesis or clairvoyance that are beyond the scope of normal scientific understanding.

If 99% of the population talked to their dead great uncles twice a week, it would be considered paranormal if those people claimed their dead great uncles replied to them. That would be beyond the scope of normal scientific understanding. On the other hand, if 99% of the population talked to their dead great uncles but didn't claim their dead great uncles replied to them, that would be considered normal.

There are problems with claiming to be "skeptical of skeptics". For one thing, skeptics already are (or should be) skeptical of skeptics, which means those claiming to be skeptical of skeptics are claiming to themselves be skeptics. Anyone claiming to be skeptical of skeptics should be skeptical of themselves, which is rarely the case whenever someone claims to be skeptical of skeptics.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:20 pm

And considering just how fashionable and "elevating" any and all claimed "psychic" and "spiritual" abilities are, if any of it would be prevalent, we all would know about it. No one would hold back on talking about it.


Sore butt, alright. The poor little victims...
Hi, Io the lurker.

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gorgeous
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Re: Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby gorgeous » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:51 pm

from the 1st article--'"-Employ vague, subjective, dismissive terms such as “ridiculous,” “trivial,” “crackpot,” or “bunk,” in a manner that purports to carry the full force of scientific authority. "------------very common here..---------------and another---- "If reasoned argument is unavailable to you, or if you have been shamed for your unscientific behavior, you can always fall back on the single most chillingly effective weapon in the war against discovery and innovation: Ridicule! Ridicule has the unique power to make those unfamiliar with the facts go completely unconscious in a twinkling. It fails to sway only those few who are well enough informed, or of sufficiently independent mind, not to buy into the kind of emotional consensus that ridicule provides. "--more----------" Engage the services of a professional stage magician who can appear to mimic the phenomena in question; for example, ESP, psychokinesis or levitation. This will convince the public that the original witnesses to such phenomena must have been duped by talented conjurors who happened to be passing through that day and hoaxed the original phenomena in precisely the same way.

• Always consider eyewitness testimony regarding anomalous events inadmissibly “anecdotal” no matter the caliber of the witnesses, how mutually independent their observations, or how firmly they agree on what they saw".
-----------love this guy...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Nikki Nyx
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Re: Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:10 pm

Genaro wrote: HOW TO DEBUNK JUST ABOUT ANYTHING
QUITE SIMPLY POINT OUT THAT THE CLAIMANT HAS UTTERLY FAILED TO PROVE HER CASE BY PROVIDING VALID FACTUAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FROM REPUTABLE SOURCES

Has this forum morphed into Yahoo answers?!
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:15 pm

gorgeous wrote:Always consider eyewitness testimony regarding anomalous events inadmissibly “anecdotal” no matter the caliber of the witnesses, how mutually independent their observations, or how firmly they agree on what they saw".
Sorry, but that's not the issue, sweetie. The issue is that the anecdotal narrative you present is never supported by factual scientific evidence of any kind.

Anecdotal narrative may be accepted as circumstantial when it is presented alongside factual scientific evidence from reputable sources. By itself, it's about as valuable as a used condom.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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gorgeous
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Re: Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby gorgeous » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:17 pm

why must you yell?.....because the author shows all the typical debunking bull spouted by you all?
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby gorgeous » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:19 pm

don't call me sweetie junior....that statement was from the skeptic in "Zen..and the Art of Debunkery".....he's mocking skeptics and their desperation to be authorities on stuff they know nothing about...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:33 am

gorgeous wrote:why must you yell?.....because the author shows all the typical debunking bull spouted by you all?
What? I was yelling BACK. Why aren't you excoriating her for yelling?
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Nikki Nyx
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Re: Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:35 am

gorgeous wrote:don't call me sweetie junior
Ok, grandma.
gorgeous wrote:that statement was from the skeptic in "Zen..and the Art of Debunkery"
No {!#%@}. I responded to you because you agreed with it.
gorgeous wrote:he's mocking skeptics and their desperation to be authorities on stuff they know nothing about...
No, he's not; he's whining because no one will believe his woo crap without proof. Like y'all do. :roll:
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:46 am

Aw, Nikki, go easy on georgie. He's... challenged. Probably all those greasy pizzas and sugary sodas the pimply blob is devouring in his mom's basement. :gurn:
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Nikki Nyx
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Re: Zen … and the Art of Debunkery

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:11 am

That was going easy! I leave the rough stuff to Master Ellard. He's much better at it than I could ever be. :mrgreen: Georgie must be missing him something fierce. ;)
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein


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