Who was the biblical Jesus?

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Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby trustyoursources » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:07 am

I recently took time to go through the bible and psychoanalyze the story of Jesus to read between the lines to what his motives would have been if he was human and corruptible. Let me know what you think motivated the biblical Christ and what were his ultimate aspirations if he did not meet an early demise?

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:22 am

I'm not sure if you are in the right forum. This is an atheist forum and our motto is "promoting science and critical thinking".

Jesus is a character from religious fiction and thus there is no point wondering what his real personality was like.

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby trustyoursources » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:28 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:I'm not sure if you are in the right forum. This is an atheist forum and our motto is "promoting science and critical thinking".

Jesus is a character from religious fiction and thus there is no point wondering what his real personality was like.


I am an atheist. I do not believe in a historical Jesus but I certainly believe that he is a literary character and as any character of literature we can speculate between the lines. Also I think skeptics and atheists would enjoy pointing out all the blatantly corrupt characteristics of Christ right in the bible that is suppose to be inerrant. You dig

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:43 am

trustyoursources wrote:I am an atheist. I do not believe in a historical Jesus but I certainly believe that he is a literary character and as any character of literature we can speculate between the lines. Also I think skeptics and atheists would enjoy pointing out all the blatantly corrupt characteristics of Christ right in the bible that is suppose to be inerrant. You dig


There is an entire website that does that, called the Skeptics Annotated Bible, initiated by Steve Wells, that has become a vast data base of all the biblical errors. It had its own forum which closed about seven years ago.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:49 am

The truth is that we do not know if there was a real single founder of the Christian religion or not. If so, his name was not Jesus.

The purported founder was Aramaic, and the original name was Yeshua Ben Yosef, or translated into English, it would be Joshua, son of Joseph. But along the way, it got translated into Greek as Iesos, and from there translated in English as Jesus. A real abomination of mistranslations.

You can get a feel for the man, if he existed, from the teachings, if they were his. He would have been a man of his time. That is, a Jew under Roman rule. Some of the teachings are clearly aimed at achieving peaceful relations with the Romans. Some are distinctly Jewish.

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:55 am

Was Jebus the "founder" of a religion? I thought he was "just" a prophet and "the religion"..... or maybe more properly depending on how tradition slices the baloney, the Church was founded by .........Paul? You know..... all the rules that go with believing in Christ even when Christ said no such thing........like all priests have to be celibate males. Nothing to do with Jebus, and everything to do with keeping the Wealth within the Vatican.

And by the way.........never married, no girl friend. Ha, ha............why, thats NOT experiencing Hell on Earth as we humans do. Should justify a return trip?

I'm not schooled in religion or the bible. And I suspect that people who are most often are "nutters" even after they give up the Ghost. It rots and structures the brain....eg, quite often to be more authoritarian than a good hooman should be. Lots of exceptions of course.......just saying.
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby salomed » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:02 am

I like the idea he was trained in Eastern mysticism as per the interesting book "Jesus Lived in India." There isn't any contemporaneous evidence of his existence, however, and quite a bit that contradicts his existence. But someone came up with his teachings, and religious or not, I think they carry a great wisdom.
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:25 am

I like the idea that Jebus visited all the places where he gave sermons a few days early while riding an invisible unicorn.

We all have our own likes and dislikes.
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby salomed » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:50 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I like the idea that Jebus visited all the places where he gave sermons a few days early while riding an invisible unicorn.


But there is no evidence for that, there is evidence he lived traveled to the orient.
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:00 am

I thought all there was was a gap in his recorded whereabouts? Supposedly the basis for a play or story about how Jebus, Buddha and some other dude all met one another??? I don't know..... just trying to respond without being FORCED to be so critical. Obvious things being what they are.
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby salomed » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:21 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I thought all there was was a gap in his recorded whereabouts? Supposedly the basis for a play or story about how Jebus, Buddha and some other dude all met one another??? I don't know..... just trying to respond without being FORCED to be so critical. Obvious things being what they are.


Read the boom if you are interested. Or there is a BBC documentary and others on youtube about this should that be your prefered medium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiy5uY3Iw2s



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9w-xJfSOyc
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:54 am

I thought all there was was a gap in his recorded whereabouts? Supposedly the basis for a play or story about how Jebus, Buddha and some other dude all met one another??? I don't know..... just trying to respond without being FORCED to be so critical. Obvious things being what they are.
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby salomed » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:08 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I thought all there was was a gap in his recorded whereabouts? Supposedly the basis for a play or story about how Jebus, Buddha and some other dude all met one another??? I don't know..... just trying to respond without being FORCED to be so critical. Obvious things being what they are.


Read the boom if you are interested. Or there is a BBC documentary and others on youtube about this should that be your prefered medium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiy5uY3Iw2s
fnord


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9w-xJfSOyc
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby trustyoursources » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:41 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
trustyoursources wrote:I am an atheist. I do not believe in a historical Jesus but I certainly believe that he is a literary character and as any character of literature we can speculate between the lines. Also I think skeptics and atheists would enjoy pointing out all the blatantly corrupt characteristics of Christ right in the bible that is suppose to be inerrant. You dig


There is an entire website that does that, called the Skeptics Annotated Bible, initiated by Steve Wells, that has become a vast data base of all the biblical errors. It had its own forum which closed about seven years ago.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/


Yeah it is an awesome website but it is not have a monopoly on skepticism. I personally believe discussing errors in the bible is a dope and true topic for a skeptics forum.
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby trustyoursources » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:45 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:The truth is that we do not know if there was a real single founder of the Christian religion or not. If so, his name was not Jesus.

The purported founder was Aramaic, and the original name was Yeshua Ben Yosef, or translated into English, it would be Joshua, son of Joseph. But along the way, it got translated into Greek as Iesos, and from there translated in English as Jesus. A real abomination of mistranslations.

You can get a feel for the man, if he existed, from the teachings, if they were his. He would have been a man of his time. That is, a Jew under Roman rule. Some of the teachings are clearly aimed at achieving peaceful relations with the Romans. Some are distinctly Jewish.


I do not believe that Jesus was ever a real historic figure I believe that his life was made up 100 years plus after the fact by Rome to control and resistant and militant Jewish populace. However I love the fact that even if looking through the lens of mythology Jesus in the bible is still a very corrupt scammer and trickster who is bitter with Jealousy and seething with righteous narcissism.

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby trustyoursources » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:19 pm

salomed wrote:I like the idea he was trained in Eastern mysticism as per the interesting book "Jesus Lived in India." There isn't any contemporaneous evidence of his existence, however, and quite a bit that contradicts his existence. But someone came up with his teachings, and religious or not, I think they carry a great wisdom.


There might be wisdom in the teaching of Jesus but most of it was common sense morality like dont steel kill etc things that exist in every society before and after Jesus. There are however lots of his teachings that are straight psycho babble motivated by desire for fame, fortune, and power. So I would go as far as to say the biblical Jesus brings any original "wisdom" to the table. More like he ran an unsuccessful Iron Age cult that bloomed to late for him to benefit from it.

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby trustyoursources » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:19 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I like the idea that Jebus visited all the places where he gave sermons a few days early while riding an invisible unicorn.

We all have our own likes and dislikes.


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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:03 pm

salomed wrote: ..... there is evidence (Jesus) he lived traveled to the orient.

There is no evidence for any Jesus at all. There is no evidence for crucifixion in the middle east either.

Any historian would point out, the legislative punishment for disrupting Roman tax collection in middle East was beheading, so the whole story of Jesus upsetting money changers, during the Jewish rebellion, is crap from start to finish.

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:47 am

Matthew

I agree that most of the New Testament is crap. But they did carry out at least some crucifixions. A skeleton was unearthed a few years ago, in Jerusalem, that had been crucified, with the broken ankle bones to show it.

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:07 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Matthew, I agree that most of the New Testament is crap. But they did carry out at least some crucifixions. A skeleton was unearthed a few years ago, in Jerusalem, that had been crucified, with the broken ankle bones to show it.


There is one example of what may be a nail for leg crucifixion, but, as a general rule, they didn't nail people to anything. They tied them up in Rome. (The slave rebellions were too big for expensive nails) Crucifixion was for Roman slaves in Rome. Beheading was for Jewish insurgents who disrupted Roman tax gathering in the provinces.

Perhaps there was a rebellious slave in the middle east and his master crucified him?


"After the only heel bone in human history had been sent to the Hebrew University Medical School in Jerusalem they discovered that a nail had been driven through its side, indicating that the man not only had been crucified but the position of the nail indicated that the feet had been nailed to the cross from their side and not from their front.

They also discovered olive wood fragments on the point of the nail indicating that he was crucified on a cross made of olive wood or on an olive tree. This led them to also discovering that the condemned man was crucified at eye level since olive trees are not very tall."

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Gord » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:07 am

These videos are funny, but slow. Try watching them at faster speeds, like x1.25 or x1.5.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:27 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I thought all there was was a gap in his recorded whereabouts?
The fictional Jesus wasn't anywhere. The fictional character was stated to have been a carpenter in Galilee from the age of twelve.

"The Jesus went to India" story is recent crap. In 1869, a bloke called Louis Jacolliot, felt that the name "Christos" and "Krishna" were so similar that it meant that Jesus and Krishna were the same person. The problem is that "Christos" is Greek and not Aramaic.

That's it. That's the entire evidence that Jesus somehow travelled to India

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:45 am

Well Matt: that is pretty overwhelming evidence when the subject is Jebus!

Yea, verily!!
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby trustyoursources » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:33 am

Gord wrote:These videos are funny, but slow. Try watching them at faster speeds, like x1.25 or x1.5.

Thanks,
This is a master hack double thank you sir.

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:34 am

I think, Bobbo, it would be more accurate to call it pretty overwhelming lack of evidence for anything to do with India.

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:27 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:I think, Bobbo, it would be more accurate to call it pretty overwhelming lack of evidence for anything to do with India.


I worked on a serious Jesus documentary in the 90's. It was written and presented by Barbara Thiering, who was an academic and tried to read the Dead Sea scrolls stories into the Jesus myths. She didn't try say there was a real Jesus but she did offer Jewish essenes (a male cult) in Quamran as the environment from which the myths arose. Unfortunately the name of the documentary was changed to "Jesus the Wicked Priest" and international sales were low. (It was a tax funded doco)

I lean more towards the view that monotheism and burial were replacing polytheism and cremation, concerning Roman soldiers retiring back to Rome, from the Syrian provinces. The Jesus cult was simply the cult that thrived among all the other Syrian cults, that the soldiers brought back with them. Titus the emperor previously ran the legions against the Jewish revolt. It took a hundred years before Constantine, the Emperor decided to adopt Christianity to get his paws on former soldiers who had adopted monotheism and burial, who lived in Rome. It was Constantine's mother, Helena, who went to Palestine and "invented" the "true cross" and the locations Jesus was meant to have been. She made a myth real.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_(empress)

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby salomed » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:08 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
salomed wrote: ..... there is evidence (Jesus) he lived traveled to the orient.

There is no evidence for any Jesus at all. There is no evidence for crucifixion in the middle east either.

Any historian would point out, the legislative punishment for disrupting Roman tax collection in middle East was beheading, so the whole story of Jesus upsetting money changers, during the Jewish rebellion, is crap from start to finish.


I agree, and there is no evidence of a Census at the time of Jesus's birth etc

There is evidence of some kind of messiah figure travelling to the east and being buried in Srinigar(?). I read that book years ago.

Have you read Caesar's Messiah (http://www.caesarsmessiah.com/) or seen the movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBZH0uoUZH4

If so what do you think of that?
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Poodle » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:19 am

"The shrine is first mentioned in the Waqi'at-i-Kashmir (Story of Kashmir, published 1747) ..."
EDIT: Someone may have missed the date, so i made it glow in what I think may be a messiah-like fashion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roza_Bal
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Anomaly » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:19 pm

salomed wrote:There is evidence of some kind of messiah figure travelling to the east and being buried in Srinigar(?). I read that book years ago.


Nope

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:25 pm

salomed wrote: I agree, and there is no evidence of a Census at the time of Jesus's birth etc
That's right and that's because Jesus is a fictional character. Are you getting it yet?

salomed wrote:Have you read Caesar's Messiah
No. I studied Roman history instead. The Q document from which the gospel of James is based is from 80AD which is when the legions started to return to Roman after the Jewish wars. The "fish" theme of early Christians is actually from a medal awarded to the 10 Legion Fretensis after the battle of Actium. The first images of Jesus ever were by legionnaires.
Early Christian grafitti.jpg
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby salomed » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:04 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
salomed wrote: I agree, and there is no evidence of a Census at the time of Jesus's birth etc
That's right and that's because Jesus is a fictional character. Are you getting it yet?

salomed wrote:Have you read Caesar's Messiah
No. I studied Roman history instead. The Q document from which the gospel of James is based is from 80AD which is when the legions started to return to Roman after the Jewish wars. The "fish" theme of early Christians is actually from a medal awarded to the 10 Legion Fretensis after the battle of Actium. The first images of Jesus ever were by legionnaires. Early Christian grafitti.jpg


You studied Roman History and Cinematography and Law and Accounting and Aerodynamics and Ancient History and Archeology and countless other things! You really are the seminal polymath! It is almost like you are many people rolled into one;) Which, given the time you spend writing posts here, would explain a lot!

As for your reply above, so you don't know anything about Atwill's work, OK, thanks for your answer! Love the graffiti! Look's like Bojack Horseman on the cross.
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:11 pm

It is amazing how much you can learn if you keep reading books after college.

..............................Simply Amazing.

I understand some people do it more than other people.
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby trustyoursources » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:00 pm

salomed wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
salomed wrote: I agree, and there is no evidence of a Census at the time of Jesus's birth etc
That's right and that's because Jesus is a fictional character. Are you getting it yet?

salomed wrote:Have you read Caesar's Messiah
No. I studied Roman history instead. The Q document from which the gospel of James is based is from 80AD which is when the legions started to return to Roman after the Jewish wars. The "fish" theme of early Christians is actually from a medal awarded to the 10 Legion Fretensis after the battle of Actium. The first images of Jesus ever were by legionnaires. Early Christian grafitti.jpg


You studied Roman History and Cinematography and Law and Accounting and Aerodynamics and Ancient History and Archeology and countless other things! You really are the seminal polymath! It is almost like you are many people rolled into one;) Which, given the time you spend writing posts here, would explain a lot!

As for your reply above, so you don't know anything about Atwill's work, OK, thanks for your answer! Love the graffiti! Look's like Bojack Horseman on the cross.


LMFAO it does look like bojack on that cross hahahahahaha

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:31 pm

I have been watching Matthew's posts for long enough to realise that he is, in fact, very well informed and very smart. Not perfect, but neither am I.

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:11 pm

salomed wrote: You studied Roman History and Cinematography and Law and Accounting and Aerodynamics and Ancient History and Archeology and countless other things! You really are the seminal polymath! It is almost like you are many people rolled into one;) Which, given the time you spend writing posts here, would explain a lot!


You have to study mathematics and organic chemistry to enroll in Anthropology and Languages (eg Statistics and carbon dating). As the Iranian revolution killed off the dig in Iran I was sent to the UK to train to run other archaeological teams. (Admin & data collection) I was then told to study accounting. After taking over an accounting firm in Australia I chose to study law to save on my firm's professional indemnity insurance premiums and maximise billable services. I sold the firm as a going concern and semi-retired. That all took thirty years. I now study languages again.

What are your degrees Salomed? Certainly not maths or logic....
:D

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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:20 pm

salomed wrote: Love the graffiti! Look's like Bojack Horseman on the cross.
If you knew anything about history, you would have identified this as the Alexamenos graffito, which is from approximately 200AD and is, in fact, anti-Christian and depicts the first known image of Jesus. The cartoon legionnaire is making fun of his friend Alexamenos saying ""Alexamenos worships his God,"
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Austin Harper » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:40 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a slanderous rumor going around Judea around that time that the Christians worshiped a donkey-headed god?
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby Electro432 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:31 pm

Cesere Borgia was a pseudo Italian prince circa very early16th. His father was Alexander the sixth who comissioned Michaelangelo to do the Sistine chapel ceiling. Cesere, I believe, was hot, but slightly psychopathetic, and was his Pope fathers favourite, who had him immortalised through the visual image as Christ, hence the long standing image we see presented now of a long haired, long nosed caucasian. Could be conspiracy, but from my long term research makes sense. I have a fond name for my cat, it' s Cesere... meaning he is a charismatic, handsome clean killer, as he deals well with the mice in my home, quickly and clean... a bit like the son of a psycho rampet non tolerant pope of old days haha
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:17 am

Austin Harper wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a slanderous rumor going around Judea around that time that the Christians worshiped a donkey-headed god?

The dude standing looks like he's wearing a kippah.
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Re: Who was the biblical Jesus?

Postby trustyoursources » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:36 am

Austin Harper wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a slanderous rumor going around Judea around that time that the Christians worshiped a donkey-headed god?


I would also like to know if this is true, if anyone know a source would be cool to lol at, thanks.


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