No "Thank you for your service."

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No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Tom Palven » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:35 am

It's nauseating twaddle says Fred Reed:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/06/fre ... al-nation/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby TJrandom » Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:11 am

Yes, but for the families it is easier to remember them as the smiling faced youngster, sacrificed to preserve freedom.

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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:51 am

As a vet, the link captures most of what I think. Never really "got along" in or out of the military.

You need more than low pay to attract cannon fodder.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:36 am

{!#%@} you, Lew.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:56 am

Perhaps slightly over stated, but a lot of truth in it. The biggest question is "WTF is the US military doing in those places anyway"?

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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Flash » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:26 am

Defending the planet from the aliens? :abd:
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:32 am

That makes about as much sense as any other explanation. In other words, none at all!

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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby TJrandom » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:01 am

One of the problems is that going-in - at least in the early days of an armed conflict, is that most youth won`t know whether they are protecting freedom, or simply generating profits for the military industrial complex, or like in Iraq - for the big oil interests. To know, it takes several years, and maybe even longer for it to be viewed thru the lens of history. And even then, since nobody likes to think they were duped, the surviving participants are likely never to admit they were used as pawns.

IMO, it really doesn`t matter, since whether history says they were duped, or indeed were protecting essential freedoms, in their own minds it was the latter. That the day which is set aside to mourn helps to shore up the industry for the former case as well, is simply too bad.

This isn`t just a US phenomenon. Here we still have nationalists who believe that Japan needs to stiffen up, so as to take on the US again, and `win` this time, for our Emperor. Our Prime Minister is one of them.

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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:11 am

Screw what the troops need to keep them following orders. What do WE as citizens think of our military / or our use of it?

Its why I hate ceremony, saluting the flag, singing the national anthem, or saying thank you for your service to our troops.

It diverts us from the carnage that use of military cannot avoid. I'm still and always constantly "shocked" at how soldiers from different sides of the conflict can get together years later and "respect" each other. Exactly the wrong attitude: should be a wine fest about how both sides got screwed over.

Nothing changes much about sending our young men into battle. I was getting irritated watching TV tonight....one pro war shoot em up fest after another. Thor, then State of Jones. Everything comes down to shooting the enemy and being heros for it.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:10 am

TJrandom wrote:This isn`t just a US phenomenon. Here we still have nationalists who believe that Japan needs to stiffen up, so as to take on the US again, and `win` this time, for our Emperor. Our Prime Minister is one of them.

Room for more heroes at the Yasukuni Shrine?
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby TJrandom » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:16 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
TJrandom wrote:This isn`t just a US phenomenon. Here we still have nationalists who believe that Japan needs to stiffen up, so as to take on the US again, and `win` this time, for our Emperor. Our Prime Minister is one of them.

Room for more heroes at the Yasukuni Shrine?


There is always more room - but if the next `big one` occurs, suspect that the Yasukuni will get blasted away, along with a good portion of Tokyo.

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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:22 am

TJrandom wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
TJrandom wrote:This isn`t just a US phenomenon. Here we still have nationalists who believe that Japan needs to stiffen up, so as to take on the US again, and `win` this time, for our Emperor. Our Prime Minister is one of them.

Room for more heroes at the Yasukuni Shrine?


There is always more room - but if the next `big one` occurs, suspect that the Yasukuni will get blasted away, along with a good portion of Tokyo.

Emperor isn't as important as he was in '45, so yeah.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:29 pm

Bobbo

About TV and shoot EM up.
The USA has an obsession with vigilantes. When you see the so called action programs, see how many of them are about the lone vigilante. Even cop programs tends to glorify the loner who breaks the rules and takes violent action against the bad guys.

Compare that to British programs, where police works as teams, within the law, and very effectively protect the public and defeat the bad guys. Which TV program should children be watching?

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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:21 pm

It's the "Good Guy with a Gun" syndrome. They open carry because they want people to know that they're willing to open fire in a poorly understood situation with little or no training in handling such things, because they'll be a HERO when they accidently shoot the right person.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:39 pm

Lance: we agree.

As to kiddie programing: depending on age: NO Movies. Educational only....... until they figure out how to bamboozle the old man.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Pyrrho » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:56 am

Aw why do you guys hate empty feel-good platitudes?
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:59 am

Pyrrho wrote:Aw why do you guys hate empty feel-good platitudes?

1972, Leonardo da Vinci airport, I'm traveling to my new command in Sicily. A twenty-something woman homes in on me as I sat reading a book.

"Are you an American?"

"Yep."

"Military?"

"The haircut does give it away."

"Do you enjoy being a baby killer?"

"If you have any kids with you I'll show you how much I enjoy it."

She left abruptly.

I was never ashamed of being a serviceman, no matter how hard people tried to make me feel that way. I was annoyed that some lunatics thought they could berate what was to them a "killer". The cluelessness was awesome.

It's better for GIs these days. People seem to be more able to separate the politics from the guys just doing their jobs.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:33 am

Skiing in Stowe Vermont: "How can you bomb innocent people from high up in the air?"===>"You line up the cross hairs."

Although.... I flew transport and almost got reported for telling a One Star that there was no good decent reason for us being in Vietnam. All "most" of them wanted was a quiet simple life.....scavenging our bomb shells to make dinnerware out of. As the years go by.....I'm more and more convinced at how right I was.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:59 am

I never argue "right and wrong", that's too subjective.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:38 pm

Whats subjective when you are drafted into a war you don't support to go and kill poor people who only want to be left alone?

Thats objectively............... wrong. Which is the same thing as: not right.

Ha, ha....... you can't draft old men. It wouldn't take me long these days to land up in the brig: "F-You!"
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:46 pm

I wasn't drafted.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:27 pm

Me neither. I "joined" to avoid it. Ha, ha............................

worked out OK though. (for me)
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:36 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Me neither. I "joined" to avoid it. Ha, ha............................

worked out OK though. (for me)

I knew when I was twelve that I'd be joining the USN.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Monster » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:48 pm

Flash wrote:Defending the planet from the aliens? :abd:

That sounds much better than reality.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:01 pm

I am not a pacifist, but I recognize that most (if not all) of the wars the USA have been involved in during my lifetime were wrong. That includes Vietnam. A country has the right to defend itself and help its allies, but outside that it should keep clear of conflict. Even overthrowing a tyrant is a very dubious endeavor when it involves aggression on someone else's country.

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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:20 pm

Your opinion is that the wars were wrong. You're welcome to that opinion. It's a lazy opinion, but it's yours.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Tom Palven » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:44 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Aw why do you guys hate empty feel-good platitudes?


We don't hate nauseating twaddle, Pyrrho, we love it, and we love veterans and Jesus, and Jesus loves me and you. And veterans.

Have a bles-sed day.

:mrgreen:
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby JO 753 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:25 pm

War iz in our jenez. We like action, the more violent, the better.

We name our sports teamz after predatorz, not herd beasts.

And there really are bad guyz. Sum uv them own countryz.

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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:10 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Your opinion is that the wars were wrong. You're welcome to that opinion. It's a lazy opinion, but it's yours.


Most wars are wrong, Gawd. There are a few occasions when entering a wrong war is right. When Japan attacked Pearl Harbour, the American response was correct. When Germany invaded Poland in WWII, the British response was correct. However, the American action in Vietnam was wrong, and pretty much all American military action since then was also wrong.

As I said, there are two correct reasons for going to war.
1. Defending yourself, like after Pearl Harbour.
2. Defending an Ally. Like Britain going to war in WWI when Belgium was invaded, since Belgium was an ally.
You might justify the first Gulf War on the grounds that America was defending Kuwait, but the second Gulf War had no such justification.

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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby JO 753 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:14 pm

Wut about stopping the bad guy befor he starts shooting?
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:15 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Your opinion is that the wars were wrong. You're welcome to that opinion. It's a lazy opinion, but it's yours.

Simple negation is lazy.......and almost always wrong given the complexity of most issues worth talking about........WAR.... pretty much at the top of the list.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:21 pm

History Lite. Love it.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:04 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I wasn't drafted.
My father was drafted in WWII. Australia was simply running out of men and the Japanese Imperial Forces, heading our way, weren't applying for Australian tourist visas. :D

As he was pulled out of Psychology at Uni, he was placing into Army artillery (Mathematics) and put on 6" coastal guns. He then transferred to psychological warfare (statistics) as the invasion threat faded, and got demobbed two years after the war. He then volunteers and joins the RAAF in 1967 as Australia was going to war with Indonesia while already at war in Vietnam and Malaya. He thought his skills were required.

Good on him. He did more than I have.
:D

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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:14 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I wasn't drafted.
My father was drafted in WWII. Australia was simply running out of men and the Japanese Imperial Forces, heading our way, weren't applying for Australian tourist visas. :D

As he was pulled out of Psychology at Uni, he was placing into Army artillery (Mathematics) and put on 6" coastal guns. He then transferred to psychological warfare (statistics) as the invasion threat faded, and got demobbed two years after the war. He then volunteers and joins the RAAF in 1967 as Australia was going to war with Indonesia while already at war in Vietnam and Malaya. He thought his skills were required.

Good on him. He did more than I have.
:D

The US stopped taking volunteers and screened them via the draft boards. We were losing important skilled trades to the services, men who would have been exempt otherwise.
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Re: No "Thank you for your service."

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:25 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:The US stopped taking volunteers and screened them via the draft boards. We were losing important skilled trades to the services, men who would have been exempt otherwise.


That makes sense to me. I understand "Bevin Boys" were British males, who were drafted and yet served in coal mines to keep production going. England was also really on the ropes, in WWII and running out of men like Australia was.

Imagine Albert Speer giving Hitler the bad news, late in the war, that he could either have a production workforce or a military, but he couldn't have both. I'm glad I wasn't in that meeting.
:D


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