How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

How should we think about weird things?
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mirror93
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How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby mirror93 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:25 pm

I see that many users are qualified as a 'true skeptic' or 'has no life' in their 'membership', which is because of the numbers of posts one made,
So, by this logic, if Gorgeous with her nonsense reach like 10k posts she will be considered a true skeptic?

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Bye.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby mirror93 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:26 pm

I want to be a true skeptic, {!#%@} this 'new member' crap!

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:39 pm

True Enlightenment comes only from posting enough crap.
Ask your Yogi.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby mirror93 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:41 pm

I am already enlightened, now I want to become a 'veteran poster' like you eletric

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Angel » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:44 pm

I think mine should say ~
Poster Child
LoL
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Cadmusteeth » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:06 pm

mirror93 wrote:I am already enlightened, now I want to become a 'veteran poster' like you eletric

Just keep posting stuff and you'll get there.

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Poodle » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:25 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:
mirror93 wrote:I am already enlightened, now I want to become a 'veteran poster' like you eletric

Just keep posting stuff and you'll get there.


Don't encourage it!

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Cadmusteeth » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:29 am

Not a great idea in hindsight.

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gord » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:02 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:Not a great idea in hindsight.

It wasn't that great an idea in foresight, either. I've always assumed it was sarcastic, but some people can't see sarcasm, and they're often the ones who believe in the woowoo.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:16 pm

Gord wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:Not a great idea in hindsight.

It wasn't that great an idea in foresight, either. I've always assumed it was sarcastic, but some people can't see sarcasm, and they're often the ones who believe in the woowoo.

We just figure you're out of your Gord most of the time.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gord » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:01 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gord wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:Not a great idea in hindsight.

It wasn't that great an idea in foresight, either. I've always assumed it was sarcastic, but some people can't see sarcasm, and they're often the ones who believe in the woowoo.

We just figure you're out of your Gord most of the time.

Yer jist jellus.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:17 pm

Gord wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gord wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:Not a great idea in hindsight.

It wasn't that great an idea in foresight, either. I've always assumed it was sarcastic, but some people can't see sarcasm, and they're often the ones who believe in the woowoo.

We just figure you're out of your Gord most of the time.

Yer jist jellus.

Gelatinous? :?:
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gord » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:14 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gord wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gord wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:Not a great idea in hindsight.

It wasn't that great an idea in foresight, either. I've always assumed it was sarcastic, but some people can't see sarcasm, and they're often the ones who believe in the woowoo.

We just figure you're out of your Gord most of the time.

Yer jist jellus.

Gelatinous? :?:

Spongiform?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:38 pm

It helps if a person doesn't spread their post count across several sock puppets.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:50 pm

:heh:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:00 am

To Mirror

While I am aware that you are being sarcastic, I would still like to point something out to you. Anyone can be skeptical about something. That simply means being doubtful about whether a particular point is correct. But the 'true skeptic', which has an independent meaning, is more than that. Those of us who aspire to being as smart as a true skeptic, do so by looking for evidence. A 'true skeptic' is a person who requires credible evidence to support his or her core beliefs. This evidence has to be empirical (based on reality) and objective. Biased evidence does not count. Nor does anything that has its origin between someone's ears. Religious revelation does not count. Nor does something get believed simply because some idiot asserts that it is true.

Understanding what evidence is credible is one of the skills of the 'true skeptic'. Using that evidence critically is critical or rational thinking. Those who cannot do this are the opposite of skeptical, and the correct word for that opposite is "gullible".

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby salomed » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:02 pm

It is fair to say that "true skeptic", when used by many of these "skeptics" is a euphemism.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:36 pm

salomed wrote:It is fair to say that "true skeptic", when used by many of these "skeptics" is a euphemism.

They try to highjack words. "Debunking", for example. Bunk should be pointed out and removed, but they want it to mean "diversion, ridicule, and slander", primarily because when the bunk is gone there's nothing left for their position to rest on. :roll:
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby salomed » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:07 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
salomed wrote:It is fair to say that "true skeptic", when used by many of these "skeptics" is a euphemism.

They try to highjack words. "Debunking", for example. Bunk should be pointed out and removed, but they want it to mean "diversion, ridicule, and slander", primarily because when the bunk is gone there's nothing left for their position to rest on. :roll:



Skepticism is a epistemological position. It is not about science or woo, it is about doubt and certainty. These "true skeptics" simply do not doubt their own doubts. They just are not skeptics, cynics and gatekeepers, maybe.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:16 pm

salomed wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
salomed wrote:It is fair to say that "true skeptic", when used by many of these "skeptics" is a euphemism.

They try to highjack words. "Debunking", for example. Bunk should be pointed out and removed, but they want it to mean "diversion, ridicule, and slander", primarily because when the bunk is gone there's nothing left for their position to rest on. :roll:



Skepticism is a epistemological position. It is not about science or woo, it is about doubt and certainty. These "true skeptics" simply do not doubt their own doubts. They just are not skeptics, cynics and gatekeepers, maybe.

The problem is that when we ask the wooistas to defend their position they just spout BS. They want everybody to be unskeptical. I just say "{!#%@} you" and move on.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Poodle » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:03 pm

salomed wrote:Skepticism is a epistemological position.

It is? I thought it more an attempt to see through the murk to reach an epistemological position.
salomed wrote:It is not about science or woo, it is about doubt and certainty. These "true skeptics" simply do not doubt their own doubts. They just are not skeptics, cynics and gatekeepers, maybe.

You would be well-advised to read the forum title ...
The Skeptics Society Forum
Promoting SCIENCE and CRITICAL THINKING
... Science ... check ... Critical Thinking ... too often absent in knee-jerk responses or unsupportable claims.
Don't you think?

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby salomed » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:48 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
salomed wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
salomed wrote:It is fair to say that "true skeptic", when used by many of these "skeptics" is a euphemism.

They try to highjack words. "Debunking", for example. Bunk should be pointed out and removed, but they want it to mean "diversion, ridicule, and slander", primarily because when the bunk is gone there's nothing left for their position to rest on. :roll:



Skepticism is a epistemological position. It is not about science or woo, it is about doubt and certainty. These "true skeptics" simply do not doubt their own doubts. They just are not skeptics, cynics and gatekeepers, maybe.

The problem is that when we ask the wooistas to defend their position they just spout BS. They want everybody to be unskeptical. I just say "{!#%@} you" and move on.


But what really is the difference between the woosters (of which I am often one) and the scientists(ibid) when it comes to certainty? The idea that there is some fortress of science and inside that is certainty and outside of that is nonsense is, itself, nonsense.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:04 pm

And so you decline to support your claims.

{!#%@} you.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Nobrot » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:07 pm

salomed wrote:...But what really is the difference between the woosters (of which I am often one) and the scientists(ibid) when it comes to certainty? The idea that there is some fortress of science and inside that is certainty and outside of that is nonsense is, itself, nonsense.

Of course the idea is nonsense, so why introduce it. No one else has.

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:09 pm

Nobrot wrote:
salomed wrote:...But what really is the difference between the woosters (of which I am often one) and the scientists(ibid) when it comes to certainty? The idea that there is some fortress of science and inside that is certainty and outside of that is nonsense is, itself, nonsense.

Of course the idea is nonsense, so why introduce it. No one else has.

Well, Sauron wants Mordor to be known as "Silicone Valley" now.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:14 pm

There is no "fortress of science".

As I have said before, one of the great virtues in science is honesty. That honesty requires scientists to declare doubt and uncertainty. In fact, a good scientist will not talk of anything being factually correct. Instead he or she will say an idea is a 'strong model of reality.'

In fact, mostly science understates certainty. For example, the idea of biological evolution is called the theory of evolution, in spite of the fact that it is as close to a certainty as any idea in this universe can be.

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:35 pm

salomed wrote:But what really is the difference between the woosters (of which I am often one) and the scientists(ibid) when it comes to certainty?
The scientific method which you go out of your way, to avoid using. :lol:

salomed wrote:The idea that there is some fortress of science and inside that is certainty and outside of that is nonsense is, itself, nonsense.
No one ever claimed that. Under the scientific method, anyone can introduce any hypothesis they want to introduce. Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin or Werner Heisenberg didn't have to siege the fortress to get in, with their wacky ideas, did they? :lol:

Please educate yourself before posting again.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gord » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:25 am

salomed wrote:These "true skeptics" simply do not doubt their own doubts.

:befuddled:

Image

Please stick to speaking for yourself, rather than for other people whom you clearly do not understand.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Cadmusteeth » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:27 am

I posted about a philosophical position that takes naturalism further by emphasizing how we talk about things; what is a useful explanation, or story, or not. While I like the concept myself I wanted to show it to others and see what they thought of it.
I read critiques on it on other websites, but they seem to be similar to critiques on science and naturalism in general.
Point is, I wanted to see it put under scrutiny.

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby salomed » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:08 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:There is no "fortress of science".


There often is here. It's walls are impenetrable and the moat is a mere slop of ridicule and ad hominems.

As I have said before, one of the great virtues in science is honesty.


OMG are you honestly being honest when you say that? You know all about the fraud in science, the bias of the peer review system, compromised journals, corporate bias etc....

It doesn't take a scientific genius to know that if corporations are paying for research that research will not be very "honest".

Wise up;)
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:23 pm

If you won't support your claims effectively then "{!#%@} off" is the appropriate response.

So, {!#%@} off.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:55 pm

salomed wrote: You know all about the fraud in science, the bias of the peer review system, compromised journals, corporate bias etc....



Science is an activity carried out by humans. As a result, there will always be the odd one who is dishonest. But compared to any other human endeavour, it is the most honest activity I know. If you actually read scientific papers, and I do, you will see how extraordinarily careful the writers are about not making unsupportable claims. That does not happen elsewhere.

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:18 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
salomed wrote: You know all about the fraud in science, the bias of the peer review system, compromised journals, corporate bias etc....



Science is an activity carried out by humans. As a result, there will always be the odd one who is dishonest. But compared to any other human endeavour, it is the most honest activity I know. If you actually read scientific papers, and I do, you will see how extraordinarily careful the writers are about not making unsupportable claims. That does not happen elsewhere.

Yep, facts can be established without human testimony (of dubious value at best).
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby salomed » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:23 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
salomed wrote: You know all about the fraud in science, the bias of the peer review system, compromised journals, corporate bias etc....



Science is an activity carried out by humans. As a result, there will always be the odd one who is dishonest. But compared to any other human endeavour, it is the most honest activity I know. If you actually read scientific papers, and I do, you will see how extraordinarily careful the writers are about not making unsupportable claims. That does not happen elsewhere.


I think the whole edifice is corrupt. It is corrupt from from the topdown (The corporations) and it lack's integrity from the bottom up (tenure, baby, tenure).

Of course this is not all scientists, institutions and journals, but I don't think it is a merely a few bad apples. It seem's pretty endemic. You must have heard of all of these issues.

Anyways, just my opinion.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:24 pm

And without something to back it up, it's worthless. I know why you don't try to back it up, you have nothing but bald assertions.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:35 pm

"If you have no evidence, attack the character of those who use evidence to form testable hypotheses."

I wonder how many wooistas have a plaque of the above mantra on their wall above their computer.
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:00 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:"If you have no evidence, attack the character of those who use evidence to form testable hypotheses."

I wonder how many wooistas have a plaque of the above mantra on their wall above their computer.

Or branded on their friend's butt so they can see it every day...
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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:36 pm

salomed wrote:
I think the whole edifice is corrupt. It is corrupt from from the topdown (The corporations) and it lack's integrity from the bottom up (tenure, baby, tenure).



That is an opinion generated by the distorted business of the news media. The slogan used by newspapers and TV news is :"If it bleeds, it leads." In other words, always emphasize anything bad, because it is more likely to attract readers and listeners. That which is good appears on the last page in small print, if at all.

THe other thing to remember is that journalists are innumerate. They do not understand statistics or numbers, and so report anecdotes instead. The vast majority of scientists are honest, and report their findings honestly, but innumerate journalists cannot understand what 'majority' means, and report the exception, since it comes as an inaccurate anecdote. Those who work for corporations, like Big Pharma, may not be as honest, but most maintain high standards. But the news media do not like to report anything good, so they will always present the opposite.
Last edited by Lance Kennedy on Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to become a 'true skeptic' in this forum?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:38 pm

"if it bleeds, it leads" is meant to convey the idea that exciting is more interesting than mundane.
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