Where do I begin?

How should we think about weird things?
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Poodle » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:35 am

Pyrrho - just so I don't tread in the doo-dah, can you clarify which rule(s) has been violated?

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:48 pm

.........or at least who violated the rules.

I am actually a bit surprised. If dumb matt has not violated a rule regarding threatening suicide, or murder of others but my memory is not sharp as not powered by any interest in this thread when that subject was repeatedly broached. I mean.....for the "good" of the Lad. If he's not allowed to talk about it, in jest or otherwise, maybe he wouldn't think about it..........or worse........cause others to think about it.

Words.....................are infectious.
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Pyrrho » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:43 pm

I'm not sure myself. For various reasons I have not been as rational lately as I'd like to be. I've been deferring any actual administrating until I regain what's left of my senses. FWIW although I am shocked, shocked I tell you to discover trolling in this thread, I'm not seeing anything that is cause for my intervention, at least this evening.
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:48 pm

Page 6:

Re: Where do I begin?

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Postby MattMVS7 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:55 pm
I swear I am going to kill someone here. If I can't get my dopamine (good feelings back), then I will become violent. I have anhedonia and I have had it for quite some time now. I absolutely cannot stand being in that neutral mental state. I always need to be in that high dopamine state. If I can't be in that state, then I will become violent.

Just saying..............
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:19 pm

I'd think for him to do any actual damage in/to the forum, some sort of button would have to be installed first? :posting:


OTOH, if he gets worked up enough to throw his own equipment out the window... :gum:







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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:24 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Just saying..............


Pyrrho is the most straight up and down person on the planet. If I step over the line, I get whacked over the head. It's fair.

However, I am guessing that this is a slightly unique situation. Pyrrho may have reached a decision that this is simply a matter of trolling and that the suicide and violence threats are simply part of an act. Additionally Pyrrho may recognise that myself and other members enjoy "looking" at trolling attempts to hone our "spot the troll" skills and thus may be a little bit more tolerant in this thread.

All I have to do is stay within the rules. Matt MSV7 is pushing hard against the rules simply to get attention, or, if he gets caught lying on another forum, to immediately cause a "death by moderator" post. As he is pretending to be mad, this actually helps his back story.

Although MattMVS7 has stopped posting for the moment, I don't think this is the end of it here. When MarkGA5 and Cobalt6 where banned from this forum, Pyrrho surprised us by banning a third new member who was very polite and sensible. It was the same person. I am looking at new joining members with interest.

I am trying to remember the name of the third member who got banned with MarkGA5 and Cobalt6

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:42 pm

Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:52 am

Smart Matt: I agree. I just have a strong view that "the discussion" here is not just between the signed and logged-in declarants. Its also those who drive by and don't post at all. An urge to violence need not be read so closely as to require an actual ability to carry out the threat?

Anyway.........another case of words/rules mean what they mean in the main by how they are enforced. Total free speech: hard to argue against. Its only the losers who will kill themselves..............
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Monster » Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:30 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
MattMVS7 wrote: I was fully dedicated to learning to compose. You would see me as the most dedicated learner. I would sit there and learn all day.
What instrument? You are lying again. :lol: :lol:

To be fair, I compose music and I no longer play any instruments.
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:17 am

Monster wrote:To be fair, I compose music and I no longer play any instruments.
True, but Matt never played any instrument and never programmed music into any music software, so one wonders what he was meant to be looking at all day? :D

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:20 am

Poodle wrote:Pyrrho - just so I don't tread in the doo-dah, can you clarify which rule(s) has been violated?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tuu5YtkPIo :D

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Gord » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:36 am

Pyrrho wrote:For various reasons I have not been as rational lately as I'd like to be.

None of us have. It's the chemtrails. Flying those planes full of mind retardant drugs all over the country for the secret lizard illuminati cabal has been taking a toll on all of us secret Muslim pilots.
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Pyrrho » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:41 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Page 6:

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Postby MattMVS7 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:55 pm
I swear I am going to kill someone here. If I can't get my dopamine (good feelings back), then I will become violent. I have anhedonia and I have had it for quite some time now. I absolutely cannot stand being in that neutral mental state. I always need to be in that high dopamine state. If I can't be in that state, then I will become violent.

Just saying..............

Yeah...now that I'm lucid this morning...if I thought that was a credible threat of violence I'd have banned him. I probably should anyway, based on that post, if only because that sort of thing puts me in a position that I won't accept. I cannot and will not be responsible for someone else's suicidal or homicidal impulses, so if MattMVS7 posts that sort of thing again I will ban him.
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Poodle » Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:09 pm

Glad to hear you're relatively sane again, Pyrrho.

MattMVS7 has no suicidal impulses. You'll have to take my word for it, but people who are going to kill themselves do not advertise the fact. On the other hand, do we really want every person struggling with hormonal development threatening to jump from the battlements? Ah - makes no difference - the chances of him self-harming are zero.

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:44 pm

Poodle: what about "other" people reading such notions and being encouraged by it? What about Dumb Matt reading his own words a few months from now in a different frame of mind? How about a nip in time saving.....whatever a nip saves??

Safe bet though.........suicide and murder being rare.....but thats the issue isn't it? How to deal with rare events????
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby gorgeous » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:49 pm

I worked for AOL internet several years ago...if anyone threatened suicide or murder we had to tell management who would then contact their local police...both are against the law...other than that it is best to ignore people with mental issues others than telling them to see a doctor...you can't right what is wrong in their head and just messing with them is wrong too..
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Poodle » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:06 pm

gorgeous wrote:I worked for AOL internet several years ago...if anyone threatened suicide or murder we had to tell management who would then contact their local police...both are against the law...other than that it is best to ignore people with mental issues others than telling them to see a doctor...you can't right what is wrong in their head and just messing with them is wrong too..


:lol:

Oh, the irony!

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby gorgeous » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:20 pm

see what I mean? ^^^^
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Poodle » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:27 pm

Well you don't see what I mean, gorgeous. The LAST thing to do with people with mental issues is to ignore them. They need to be challenged head on, assuming that a dangerous situation would not be created by doing so. Do your homework.

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:47 pm

Leading by example. Well done.
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby MattMVS7 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:46 pm

You know what? I give up. I give up on trying to decide whether to be a full materialist or someone with a conviction in the afterlife/paranormal. So many people say so many different things and I just don't know anymore. So I just give up. I think I am just going to have to remain an agnostic then.

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:54 pm

If you are going to remain what you never have been, you'll never get comfortable with being truthful, even if only to yourself.
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:31 pm

Poodle wrote:MattMVS7 has no suicidal impulses.
What about his reckless endangerment of my ears?

I had to listen to about sixty of his 400 "compositions".
:D

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Paul Anthony » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:33 pm

gorgeous wrote:I worked for AOL internet several years ago...if anyone threatened suicide or murder we had to tell management who would then contact their local police...both are against the law...other than that it is best to ignore people with mental issues others than telling them to see a doctor...you can't right what is wrong in their head and just messing with them is wrong too..


Just for the record...suicide is only illegal if you survive. No dead person has ever been convicted of suicide.

What are they supposed to do, give him the death sentence?
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:35 pm

MattMVS7 wrote:You know what? I give up.
This is fantastically good news. The musicians of the world congratulate you on this decision.

Bye bye!
:D

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Pyrrho » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:37 pm

Poodle wrote:Glad to hear you're relatively sane again, Pyrrho.

MattMVS7 has no suicidal impulses. You'll have to take my word for it, but people who are going to kill themselves do not advertise the fact. On the other hand, do we really want every person struggling with hormonal development threatening to jump from the battlements? Ah - makes no difference - the chances of him self-harming are zero.

Yes, and I've had to deal personally with suicidal people. As a result I do not have a sense of humor about it I'm aware of.
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:41 pm

Paul Anthony wrote:Just for the record...suicide is only illegal if you survive. No dead person has ever been convicted of suicide

Two different issues. Practicing for the ministry?
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:50 pm

If suicide is a crime in some jurisdictions, threatening with it probably is too?
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby MattMVS7 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:26 am

We are all going to forever die someday. Just because you have an extreme ego and an extreme sense of self-entitlement does not make you an exception.

I sure hope that's not true. I hope reality is what people want it to be in the end. Those who want to forever remain dead can forever remain dead. But those who want and feel entitled to an eternal blissful afterlife can have it. I remain agnostic and am not sure.

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Pyrrho » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:28 am

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:35 am



That is all good advice for dealing with a rational person, going through a bad period. It isn't that useful for a person with compounding psychiatric problems. I think a real psychiatrist is required for assessing and applying tailored remedies to those people with complex issues.

However MattMVS7 is simply acting, and claims to have a full time psychiatrist, so we don't have to worry about him.

I have my Russian ex-business partner friend who is slowly killing himself through alcoholism and prescription drugs (codine). I'm working with the former head of the AMA, another Russian, and we just can't seem to fix him. The brain damage from vodka is now kicking in after fifteen years, so we're running out of time. It's a real {!#%@} tragedy. This bloke trained me in the 1980's.

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Monster » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:47 am

MattMVS7 wrote:
We are all going to forever die someday. Just because you have an extreme ego and an extreme sense of self-entitlement does not make you an exception.

I sure hope that's not true. I hope reality is what people want it to be in the end. Those who want to forever remain dead can forever remain dead. But those who want and feel entitled to an eternal blissful afterlife can have it. I remain agnostic and am not sure.

I very strongly recommend that you do not hasten your journey to the afterlife. Simply try to be happy with your life now, and if you have some situation that you dislike, try to make it better.
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Poodle » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:35 am

Pyrrho wrote:
Poodle wrote:Glad to hear you're relatively sane again, Pyrrho.

MattMVS7 has no suicidal impulses. You'll have to take my word for it, but people who are going to kill themselves do not advertise the fact. On the other hand, do we really want every person struggling with hormonal development threatening to jump from the battlements? Ah - makes no difference - the chances of him self-harming are zero.

Yes, and I've had to deal personally with suicidal people. As a result I do not have a sense of humor about it I'm aware of.


I think I've given you the wrong impression, Pyrrho. I should have made it clear that I'm talking about people who threaten suicide rather than suicidal people. They're the ones who take a dozen pills instead of the whole lot and can tell you when asked that it is, indeed, a dozen. Using threats of suicide or even suicide 'attempts' which would never have been fatal is a sure sign of no suicidal tendencies at all. It's a cry for attention, certainly, but that's about it. MattMVS7 is all over the net saying the same things over and over. Compulsive, yes, monomaniacal, yes, but that's about it.

EDIT: Ah! Maybe it was this ... "The LAST thing to do with people with mental issues is to ignore them. They need to be challenged head on ...".

Challenge the issues, not the people ... is what I meant.

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Pyrrho » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:20 am

It's okay. We're on the same page I think.
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:09 pm

I don't personally care. As a base line, there are too many people in the world. Getting rid of a few who don't appreciate the ride has a very strong gene pool protection and poetic justice about it.................but.............. who are we kidding?

Diagnosing complete strangers from a distance?

Ignoring the effect of the posted words on other wholly unknown people??

Sometimes..............its the words.................not the people.

Let me demonstrate that we all know this: {!#%@}.
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:03 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Miles Cordell


How interesting. For reasons beyond our lowly bottom level, forum member's knowledge, Pyrrho, the moderator, thanked your post.

Thanks, scrmbldggs for the post (total 2):
Matthew Ellard • Pyrrho


I wonder why the new member Kyle_Connor stopped posting, after we brought this matter up? I wonder if Pyrrho knows something we don't?

viewtopic.php?f=16&p=520583#p519985
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25608&p=519982#p519982
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=26719&p=518865#p518865

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby TJrandom » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:38 am

Paul Anthony wrote:
gorgeous wrote:I worked for AOL internet several years ago...if anyone threatened suicide or murder we had to tell management who would then contact their local police...both are against the law...other than that it is best to ignore people with mental issues others than telling them to see a doctor...you can't right what is wrong in their head and just messing with them is wrong too..


Just for the record...suicide is only illegal if you survive. No dead person has ever been convicted of suicide.

What are they supposed to do, give him the death sentence?


Nope - not true. Here in Japan if you commit suicide and in the process cause economic damage - delay trains, for example - your estate, spouse, parents, etc. will be sued and will pay dearly.

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby OlegTheBatty » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:38 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:


That is all good advice for dealing with a rational person, going through a bad period. It isn't that useful for a person with compounding psychiatric problems. I think a real psychiatrist is required for assessing and applying tailored remedies to those people with complex issues.


When a person is suicidal, a psychiatrist may be no better than a lay person at helping. Psychiatrists are trained to apply their therapies between crises, not during crises. Defusing a crisis is a completely different kettle of fish from an ongoing therapy, and requires its own modalities.

The suggestions in Pyrrho's link have been built by someone who is familiar with defusing crises.

No one having a crisis is rational. The helper needs to defuse the emotional storm sufficiently for the rational to kick in.

If the person is having ongoing psychoses, then the helper might need to be creative in their defusing - for example, you may need to go along with a delusion rather than challenge it. Let the psychiatrist help with the delusions - the crisis counselor can't.
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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:00 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:When a person is suicidal, a psychiatrist may be no better than a lay person at helping. Psychiatrists are trained to apply their therapies between crises, not during crises. Defusing a crisis is a completely different kettle of fish from an ongoing therapy, and requires its own modalities.
OK. I will take that on board. If I think about all the things that I have actually seen from life, that makes sense. ,

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Re: Where do I begin?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:59 am

Reading for the third time........lots of ideas to play with. Just "how" suicidal is the person? Are we talking lay person as the average idiot or a non-psychiatrist who has had training in suicide intervention? Are we talking about the counseling techniques listed in the book and failing to recognize that psychiatrists have more skills than that? An ability to listen and keep your own ego out of the mix is certainly important.

Who would you rather have intervene in your own case?

Lots of ways to juggle the various issues and assumptions presented.
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