Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

How should we think about weird things?
Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:56 am

zeuzzz wrote:Lets assume that all biological behaviours are more neurological than genetic. A crazy idea, yea?
And that parents can pass down such behaviours to the next generation through nurture over nature. Through culture.

How wrong is that above paragraph?
Matthew Ellard wrote:As I already explained, nurturing mammals evolved from earlier non-nurturing animals due to normal conventional evolutionary dynamics. In your current insane claim you are saying that there was some magical change over point when a whole new nurturing evolutionary mechanism, that you can't actually set out, took over.


Matthew Ellard wrote:When exactly was that changeover Zeuzzz?
zeuzzz wrote:Most likely 100,000 or so years ago; it remains to be determined how psilocybin effects the brain.
Zeuzzz. Modern humans already evolved 195,000 years ago. There has been no change in human behaviour before or after this magical 100,000 year period that you simply made up.

What is your evidence that there was a magical evolutionary mechanism change 100,000 years ago, using the vast amounts of anthropological evidence we have? :D

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:00 am

zeuzzz wrote:Your point for point recuctionistic view of genes assumes linearity of additivity......,


Go to bed Zeuzzz. You seem more intent on using and misspelling long words, you don't understand, than actually thinking through what your claim is and the blatantly obvious problems. :D

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:02 am

zeuzzz wrote:l to assure yourself that I am not making this up.
You just made up the 100,000 year date. :D

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:02 am

Dodge ... but you certainly win the cherry-picking award.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:03 am

zeuzzz wrote:Dodge ... but you certainly win the cherry-picking award.
What "dodge" Zeuzzz? Spell it out and stop being so "Zeuzzless" :lol:

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:06 am

Impossible you are Matt. I even referenced the above, not just with links to threads I have started, but scientific papers. You reply with hyperbolic emoticons ... rly? On a skeptic forum?
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:08 am

You are (again) reacting and not thinking.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:12 am

zeuzzz wrote:Impossible you are Matt. I even referenced the above, not just with links to threads I have started, but scientific papers. You reply with hyperbolic emoticons ... rly? On a skeptic forum?


Zeuzzz, You just got busted faking a 100,000 year ago date, for a magical evolutionary mechanism change, that makes no sense whatsoever, that doesn't appear in any of the unrelated science papers, you keep posting.

Which exact paper is this in Zeuzzz?


Zeuzzz, it is 6.00AM and you have been posting all night and I assume from the lack of coherence in your posts, that you have been smoking DMT again. Go to bed and read your own posts again in the morning. You will see what you have actually claimed. :D

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:19 am

See what Matt has resort to?

He takes a rough date I fleetingly mentioned, 100,000 years, gets fixated on it (rather than speak to me about it) accuses me of making up magical things (whilst ignoring the hard science above) and even stoops to the level of directly accusing me of smoking psychedelics as if that makes alll of the above a moot point.

... You really have literally nothing more to say about my above post?
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:23 am

Because if you want I can break it down.

Point by point.

Using the same kind of reductive logic you seem to have an affinity for.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:26 am

zeuzzz wrote: ... You really having literally nothing more to say on my above post?


What can I say? :lol:

You have made an absolutely insane claim, that makes absolutely no sense.

You are claiming the fundamental mechanism of evolution magically changed, roughly 100,000 years ago, into another mechanism that you can't even describe in any detail.

You "think" it has something to do with the mice who only experienced a change in an existing alternative gene being turned "on" for only two generations. It is totally unrelated to evolution as it does not introduce any new genes. You seem unable to grasp that fundamental point.

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:29 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:It is totally unrelated to evolution as it does not introduce any new genes. You seem unable to grasp that fundamental point.


Lets take a logical deduction from this post then, if you are going to ignore all of the above ...

Are you saying that evolution can not occur unless new genes are involved?
Last edited by zeuzzz on Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:29 am

zeuzzz wrote:Because if you want I can break it down.

Start now.

What is your evidence that there was any change in evolutionary mechanisms in the 195,000 year old homo sapien species....roughly 100,000 year ago?

What evidence do you have that there was any change in human behaviour roughly 100,000 years ago?

You have no such evidence. Is that correct?
:D

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:30 am

zeuzzz wrote: Are you saying that evolution can not occur unless new genes are involved?
Yes Zeuzzz. I have been saying that for two years.

New gene origination is a driving force of evolutionary innovation in all organisms
http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpag ... ogenes-835

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:35 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
zeuzzz wrote: Are you saying that evolution can not occur unless new genes are involved?


Yes Zeuzzz. I have been saying that for two years.

And for over two years you have avoided direct talk about Robert Sapolskys studies into huge cultural changes, independant of genes. I already explained this (again) above.

Sapolsky, Robert M., and Lisa J. Share. "A pacific culture among wild baboons: its emergence and transmission." PLoS Biol 2.4 (2004): e106.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:39 am

zeuzzz wrote: And for over two years you have avoided direct talk about Robert Sapolskys studies into huge cultural changes, independant of genes. I already explained this (again) above.
Zeuzzz, cultural changes are not biological evolutionary changes are they?

Humans are 195,000 years old and our modern current culture only arose with agriculture 9,000 years ago.

You really don't seem to know anything about anthropology and human history.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:45 am

Zeuzzz. Let me give you another clear example of how insane your new claim is.

Humans already spread around the planet 150,000 years ago. If you are claiming that one group ate magic mushrooms and thus had a complete change in evolutionary mechanisms, then how come all humans still evolve through normal evolutionary mechanisms, today?

Can you see how mad your claim is?

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:47 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:If you are claiming that one group ate magic mushrooms and thus had a complete change in evolutionary mechanisms, then how come all humans still evolve through normal evolutionary mechanisms, today?

I am not (nor have above) claimed that.

If you have not yet noticed this thread has taken a different trajectory from the OP. We are 48 pages in. Please try to keep up.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:52 am

zeuzzz wrote: I am not (nor have above) claimed that.
Yes Zeuzzz it is exactly what you are claiming.

If humans are 195,000 years old and spread over the planet....

....and you claim, one group, that ate magic mushrooms, roughly 100,000 years ago, changed to a completely different evolutionary mechanism.....due to nurturing.......

then why do all humans on the planet today still evolve only due to normal evolutionary mechanisms? :lol:

Olle
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:43 am
Custom Title: My own special title
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Olle » Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:00 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
zeuzzz wrote:If humans are 195,000 years old and spread over the planet....

This may or may not be irrelevant to your argument, but McKenna's theory was spanning some 2-2,5 millions years and several different types of humans.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:00 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:If humans are 195,000 years old and spread over the planet....
Olle wrote:This may or may not be irrelevant to your argument, but McKenna's theory was spanning some 2-2,5 millions years and several different types of humans.

Hi Olle, Firstly McKenna admitted that he never had a theory, and was merely making up anecdotes as conscious propaganda to get people to talk more about magic mushrooms. McKenna was being honest at the end.
Stoned ape was just propaganda.jpg
(click to enlarge)

Secondly, there theory makes no sense and there is no biological mechanism to allow any part of the theory to work anyhow.

Here is a three page moderated formal debate that debunks all the "Stoned ape" claims.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25616


Currently, I believe Zeuzzz is simply looking for any mechanism or magic, he can, that would allow for a person on Psilocybin to somehow magically change their genes. That's the entertaining part. :D
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:23 pm

Matt is so transparent to me, as I have read all his posts ... he is just stuck on loop on this subject. Not only does he refuse to ask me open questions to make this discussion productive but he continually brings up the out-dated debate thread as if he has made some kind of killer salient point there [if he had he would post it here] ... which is why I can sometimes seem a bit abrasive when he posts. I had been drinking previously in this thread, the last page or so is a massive waste of time as my mindset was too reactionary, and Matt was just playing with that.

btw, olle, that is about the twentieth time he has posted that picture, out of context, and played with McKennas involved discourse about how propaganda works through spoken language. It was a point he made deliberately out of introspective sincerity and frankness to make sure that the people listening to him asked probing questions and did not take his word for gospel; he was aware that his perspective about evolution at the time (1987) was nothing much more than a vague possibility that needed informed critisism; as he was not getting it peer reviewed or published at the time but was just giving a public talk at the Esalen Institute. He was cognisant enough of what he was doing in the larger context to be very frank.

Matt uses that quote out of context as if it means something more than it does.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:29 pm

Hey Matt, how are you?

Do you want to know what progress I am making with the pre historic theory of human cognitive emergence? It's kind of fascinating the role of not just diets but nurturing and culture has had on our evolution, and what effect the environment and our ecologically forced foods have had on this in the process.

Or would you prefer to just post memes and links here ... maybe a new thread for now is in order to direct your reactionary hyperbole down more productive avenues? Like the HARE5 regulatory gene sequence? We could also talk about many productive things to do with general brain architecture, since that is the main point I am writing up at the moment.

So, what do you think about HARE5?

(if you've not already forgotten, I brought it up here in this post before, and you replied with this "You are an idiot. I have personally measured the evolution of hominid brain capacities and the development of the frontal lobes at university, using sand and other techniques."

You do realize this is a skeptic forum, right?
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:00 am

zeuzzz wrote:Matt is so transparent to me, as I have read all his posts ...
......and avoided answering every one of my direct questions. :lol:

zeuzzz wrote:Not only does he refuse to ask me open questions to make this discussion productive .....
Zeuzzz? What is the exact biological mechanism that you claim can cause human consciousness to change genes and made modern man evolve? ( I have been waiting two years for you to answer that question). :D

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKenna's "Stoned Ape" Theory / Debunked

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:07 am

zeuzzz wrote:Hey Matt, how are you? Do you want to know what progress I am making with the pre historic theory of human cognitive emergence?
Yes Zeuzzz. what is the exact biological mechanism that allows human consciousness to introduce new genes and allowed modern man to evolve?

Secondly, how are magic mushrooms unique to this mechanism?



zeuzzz wrote:maybe a new thread for now is in order to direct your reactionary ...........
Don't start any new Terence McKenna or psilocybin threads. You have started more than fifteen threads already on that topic and you have not answered my direct questions in any of those threads.


zeuzzz wrote: You do realize this is a skeptic forum, right?
Yes Zeuzzz. That's why I keep asking you skeptical questions about your non-existent theory and you keep avoiding my questions by staring new threads. :lol:

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:34 am

Sigh. Here we go again. Rinse, repeat.

Matthew Ellard wrote: Zeuzzz? What is the exact biological mechanism that you claim can cause human consciousness to change genes and made modern man evolve? ( I have been waiting two years for you to answer that question). :D

I have no different opinion on this matter as yours. You already know that nurture can effect evolution. You also know that language handed down through culture can. You also know that hormones from states of mind (9/11) can change the expression of genes. And that the expression of genes can be inherited from one generation to the next due to famine during war [the Överkalix study] ... Fill in the (obvious) blanks and maybe we can talk more productively about the neurology of these things.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:44 am

zeuzzz wrote:You already know that nurture can effect evolution.
No it cannot. you forgot that I already debunked that, in that mammals evolved from non-nurturing species. The innate behaviour of nurturing has evolved itself. Nurturing did not "magically appear" one day and start species evolving through a different mechanism. That makes no sense.

When worker ants look after the queen ( nurture) is that evolved or something that magically turned up one day and made ants evolve using a different mechanism?


zeuzzz wrote:You also know that language handed down through culture can.
No Zeuzzz. I studied anthropology and language does not cause a species to biologically evolve.


zeuzzz wrote:Fill in the blanks for me and maybe we can talk more productively about the neurology of these things.
What blanks am I filling in?

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:54 am

You are way more obsessed with strawmanning and magic than I am.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:56 am

zeuzzz wrote:You are way more obsessed with strawmanning and magic than I am.


What blanks am I filling in? You asked me. How can I be stawmanning you? :D

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:01 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
zeuzzz wrote:You already know that nurture can effect evolution.
No it cannot.

Hehe, well that is quite a statement. That when argued to it's extreme vs basic learned evolutionary processes, is pretty much indefensible. If you don't understand the complexities of the nature vs nurture debate then fine, say so .... but to say nurture plays no evolutionary role is egoistic reactionary nonsense.

zeuzzz wrote:You also know that language handed down through culture can.
[color=#000080]No Zeuzzz. I studied anthropology and language does not cause a species to biologically evolve.

Are you saying that language can not affect the trajectory of culture? If not, what cognitive evolutionary differential role has language played in humans? And how different, in orders of magnitude, is our linguistic ability from the nearest primates?

zeuzzz wrote:Fill in the blanks for me and maybe we can talk more productively about the neurology of these things.
What blanks am I filling in?

Just answering my above posts would be great thx.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:12 am

zeuzzz wrote:You already know that nurture can effect evolution.
Matthew Ellard wrote:No it cannot.
zeuzzz wrote:Hehe, well that is quite a statement.
Yes Zeuzzz. It's called science. You should try it! :D


zeuzzz wrote: If you don't understand the complexities of the nature vs nurture debate then fine, say so
Zeuzzz, I actually do understand this, and at a university level. You don't know the basics about biology or evolution. You still can't tell me any mechanism for how nurture introduces one new gene to allow for evolution.


zeuzzz wrote:You also know that language handed down through culture can.
Matthew Ellard wrote: No Zeuzzz. I studied anthropology and language does not cause a species to biologically evolve.
zeuzzz wrote:You've snookered yourself again ... you are saying that language can not affect the trajectory of culture?
No I said "biological evolution". Are you confused and mixing up the terms culture and evolution again.

What did you learn from me about Australopithecus and Palaeolithic culture? What opportunity did that offer for increasing protein uptake, through mutation and normal evolutionary mechanisms?

User avatar
Monster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4972
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:57 pm
Location: Tarrytown, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Monster » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:27 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Zeuzzz, it is 6.00AM and you have been posting all night and I assume from the lack of coherence in your posts, that you have been smoking DMT again.

Smoking? Exactly how is DMT administered? I would have thought that it would be eyedrops.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:35 am

Monster wrote: Smoking? Exactly how is DMT administered? I would have thought that it would be eyedrops.

Zeuzzz wrote: I smoke some DMT last night and.....

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=20747&p=347269&hilit=smoked#p347269

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:00 am

Monster wrote:Smoking? Exactly how is DMT administered? I would have thought that it would be eyedrops.

In a clincial setting it is administered by IV injection, as Rick Strassman did in his clinical studies. However since the raw form of DMT is not protonated and is in freebase form (when isolated from the base due to it's insolubility in non-polar solvents) it is able to be evaporated, as the melting point is about 60C, the evaporation point is about 100C and the combustion point is around the 400C mark.

Funnily enough RT recently shared an article about DMT, as its chemical properties suit e-cigarettes quite well, so many people are taking advantage of this ROA, see below

https://www.rt.com/uk/220551-vape-dmt-e ... cigarette/

edit: spelling
edit2: date of RT article
Last edited by zeuzzz on Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:07 am

Matt seems stuck again with his above reply. Ego first ... " It's called science. You should try it! ... "I actually do understand this, and at a university level. You don't know the basics about biology or evolution. " he also probably said something else ... but meh.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:12 am

zeuzzz wrote:Matt seems stuck again with his above reply. Ego first ... " It's called science. You should try it! ... "I actually do understand this, and at a university level. You don't know the basics about biology or evolution. " he also probably said something else ... but meh.


No Zeuzzz. I meant exactly what I said.

You are still in denial that evolution requires new genes, which arise due to mutation. Magic mushrooms are not required, nor do Magic mushrooms introduce one new gene. That is your bizarre fantasy.
:D

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:14 am

Still stuck with your bizarre fantasy that I am claiming a one to one point for point reductive model that mushrooms create new genes?

A shame you can't post past your ego to speak to me. Like a normal person would.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26372
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:25 am

zeuzzz wrote:Still stuck with your bizarre fantasy that I am claiming a one to one point for point reductive model that mushrooms create new genes?
No Zeuzzz. I think you have a whole range of fuzzy unconnected thoughts in your head and every couple of months, you try post them in a different order, to try force them into some sort of "theory".

At no point, in your two years here have you ever set out, a full and complete scientific theory.

After a couple members point out your errors, you cry foul and say "I'm am going to go away and write a complete scientific theory". However, you simply come back a month later and try set out all the same fuzzy thoughts, in a different order and hope we don't notice. You have never progressed from that.
:D

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:29 am

I've actually had some good conversations with other members here about this subject.

Until you jump in.

And ruin it all with facts and stuff.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.

User avatar
zeuzzz
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3859
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:33 pm
Custom Title: Unicorn Herder

Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Postby zeuzzz » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:30 am

I should thank you however (Matt), the article I am writing would never have taken the trajectory it has without your argumentative and skeptical input in this thread, no matter how impossible you are at times.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.


Return to “Skepticism and Critical Thinking”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest