where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

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where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby mirror93 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:55 pm

I see atheists all around youtube debunking christianity, which is of course a waste of time, cuz we already know that christianity is nonsense and that god isn't real, but what about this wave of believers in non duality and this "absolute" "god" is everything (see "nisargadatta maharaj I am that" book), when will atheists criticize this new religion and making good videos with critical thinking upon their beliefs? just asking. And I see advaita vedanta a big problem cuz they actually think they are god, all is god, all is absolute, no others, no good or bad, and that you are not real for them, so whatever, if a pedo do some {!#%@} that's god doing not a pedo because the pedo is an illusion, not real, an appearance appearing in "brahman" "god, there is just "this" "god".
This of course needs a good debunking and I don't see ANY on youtube. And I see this {!#%@} growing in believers.

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:37 am

mirror93 wrote:I see atheists all around youtube debunking christianity, .......but what about this wave of believers in non duality and this "absolute" "god" is everything


Debunking Dualism No1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS4PW35-Y00


Debunking Dualism No2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZTCK8ZluEc

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby mirror93 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:22 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
mirror93 wrote:I see atheists all around youtube debunking christianity, .......but what about this wave of believers in non duality and this "absolute" "god" is everything


Debunking Dualism No1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS4PW35-Y00


Debunking Dualism No2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZTCK8ZluEc


This is actually criticizing dualism, not non-dualism. which is saying that there is no dualism but there is the brahman, god alone, that is the knower of all experiences and you are that blah blah

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Gord » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:52 am

Maybe nobody cares enough about it.
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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:55 am

mirror93 wrote: This is actually criticizing dualism, not non-dualism. which is saying that there is no dualism but there is the brahman, god alone, that is the knower of all experiences and you are that blah blah


It does not say there is "the brahman" at all. You didn't watch the videos.

Would you like to set out for us, the non-dualism religious framework, so we can comment on it?

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:31 pm

Most atheists debunk Christianity because that happens to be their cultural background.

I've seen debunkings of Judaism and Islam from an atheist perspective.

Blaise Pascal (you know, that wager guy) did a pretty good refutation of classical Paganism that still stands.

There are also debunkings of "gods in general" out there.

I'll admit (as I have before) that if you make your deity vague enough, I cannot refute it. And plenty of Christian denominations do exactly that. Also some Jews (going back to Spinoza at least).
Scientists don't know everything, therefore my favorite flavor of stoopidz is true.

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby ElectricMonk » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:39 pm

There will always be space for a God in the Gaps - if the god is small enough.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby mirror93 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:13 pm

some BS like that

"Radical skepticism leads to God Realization"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVlaYQAqGoU

"God is pure existence"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hedcSoMMSvw

"God Needs Our Mind to Know the World"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyL1uVaXGqU

"Body-Mind - temporary modulation of awareness"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RxR040mg2A

"I have no Name or Form but Appear as All Names and Forms"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jQkWYnA9VQ

"The Self in You is God's Self"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFfXvjFdpKg

"What is God"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PZYT6Fehzo

I can't tell how much I hate Deepak Chopra this {!#%@} charlatan...but there are more like him
also Rupert Spira and a bunch of others, deny objective reality in favor of solipsism and that god is knowing everything through you, not you. so you're never knowing for yourself, but is god knowing, that's what they argue. So if a pedo abuses a child it's god the "absolute eternal love knowing awareness blah blah" doing it, thinking about it, knowing it.

The problem is that they don't call it a religion, they call it the "nature of reality", the "final truth". Not even christians do that, that's the problem. they see skepticism as just a "modulation of awareness" [whatever that means??]

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Incredulous2 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:38 am

I'm pleased that someone here has raised this. I have only just joined this community forum in order to find a rational 'step by step' critique of non-dualism teaching.

I'm carefully reading Rupert Spira's text: 'The Nature of Consciousness: Essays on the Unity of Mind and Matter'. It is a fascinating read for a skeptic who is open to be convinced. However, I would like to read a counter argument.

Of course, those within the Advaita Vedanta persuasion would qualify the assertions that they 'favour solipsism'. Also, the case of the child abuser above would not be considered by them as 'illusion' per se, or the intentional work of God, as it is a genuine experience within the frame of separated 'mind' and the painful consequences for both child and perpetrator are accepted as 'real' from the point of view of that 'separate mind'. As you can see, this perspective on reality is more complex than a western skeptic such as I can handle except in small doses, but I really would like to see some rigorous criticism. I have searched the Sam Harris site but even there I find only a general 'pooh-pooh' 'nonsense' level of argument.

Glad to have found at least some interest here.

Thanks

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:30 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:There will always be space for a God in the Gaps - if the god is small enough.

Image
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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:45 pm

mirror93 wrote:...deny objective reality in favor of solipsism and that god is knowing everything through you, not you. so you're never knowing for yourself, but is god knowing, that's what they argue. So if a pedo abuses a child it's god the "absolute eternal love knowing awareness blah blah" doing it, thinking about it, knowing it.
From Wiki...
Unlike Buddhism, but like Jainism, all Vedanta schools consider the existence of Atman (real self, soul) as self-evident. The Vedanta tradition also posits the concept of Brahman as the eternal, unchanging metaphysical reality. The sub-schools of Vedanta disagree on the relation between Atman and Brahman. The Advaita darsana considers them to be identical.

Advaita Vedanta believes that the knowledge of one's true self or Atman is liberating. Along with self-knowledge, it teaches that moksha can be achieved by the correct understanding of one's true identity as Ātman, the dispassionate and unmoveable observer, and the identity of Ātman and Brahman.

The process of acquiring this knowledge entails realising that one’s True Self, the Atman, is essentially the same as Brahman. This is achieved through what Sankara refers to as anubhava, immediate intuition. Sankara contends that this direct awareness is construction-free, and not construction-filled. Self-knowledge is, therefore, not seen as an awareness of Brahman, but instead an awareness that is Brahman, since one will transcend any form of duality in this state of consciousness.
Like all religions, this seems like a construct designed to artificially boost people's self-esteem. Religion of the "everyone is special" school. Sounds like BS to me.
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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:47 pm

Incredulous2 wrote:I have only just joined this community forum...
Welcome, Incredulous! :wave:
"Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge."—Carl Sagan

"Every philosophy is tinged with the coloring of some secret imaginative background, which never emerges explicitly into its train of reasoning."—Alfred North Whitehead

"Knowledge belongs to humanity, and is the torch which illuminates the world."—Louis Pasteur

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:43 pm

Incredulous2 wrote:I'm carefully reading Rupert Spira's text: 'The Nature of Consciousness: Essays on the Unity of Mind and Matter'. It is a fascinating read for a skeptic who is open to be convinced. However, I would like to read a counter argument.
As no non-dualism follower has ever set out their working hypothesis for their religious belief system, on this forum, there is nothing for any skeptic to debunk or make a counter argument against.

It would be a waste of time to try argue against something that the non-dualism followers, themselves, can't even set down on paper.

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby placid » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:35 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Incredulous2 wrote:I'm carefully reading Rupert Spira's text: 'The Nature of Consciousness: Essays on the Unity of Mind and Matter'. It is a fascinating read for a skeptic who is open to be convinced. However, I would like to read a counter argument.
As no non-dualism follower has ever set out their working hypothesis for their religious belief system, on this forum, there is nothing for any skeptic to debunk or make a counter argument against.


Gosh, isn't that a bummer, I've got no one to argue with but myself. Good observation Matt, pow pow, take that you fiend, I really mean friend...albeit imagined.

Ooh, hang on, which is which, who do i like to be the most, my fiend or my friend ..and how do i tell the difference except through preference...ooh, i'm such a fickle one...what role shall i take on today, its no fun being by myself, i better invent an imaginary friend to keep me amused.


Matthew Ellard wrote:It would be a waste of time to try argue against something that the non-dualism followers, themselves, can't even set down on paper.

Arguing against nothing or debunking nothing can be a lonely and fruitless activity Matt, best not bother.

But if some symbols on a piece of paper reveals something to you that is of value then go for it, ....even though real intelligence tells us that the map is never the actual territory...every fool knows that.

The territory is already you, but if you feel like you need to remember that because you've perhaps forgotten, you've always got the recording to fall back on, you know the evidence of your own knowledge.

The moral of the story Matt, is never try to con a con.
Something clever should go here.

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Poodle » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:27 am

placid wrote: ... The moral of the story Matt, is never try to con a con.


:D Wow - that's a big admission. But I'm glad you've finally seen sense. Welcome back to common or garden reality.

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:37 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote: As no non-dualism follower has ever set out their working hypothesis for their religious belief system, on this forum, there is nothing for any skeptic to debunk or make a counter argument against.
placid wrote:Gosh, isn't that a bummer,
No. It's a fact. That's why you and Confidencia can't write it down remember? :)


placid wrote:what role shall i take on today,
Confused idiot troll. It's your best and only role. :D

placid wrote: But if some symbols on a piece of paper reveals something to you that is of value then go for it,
You are posting the same symbols on a forum you buffoon, and expecting us to read them. Are you really that dumb, as to not think that through? :lol:

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Dubious » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:14 pm

What's dualism anyways except the opposite side of the same coin. Remove a side and the coin is gone...poof!

Dualism is nothing more than a duel between heads & tails.

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby mirror93 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:11 am

placid wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Incredulous2 wrote:I'm carefully reading Rupert Spira's text: 'The Nature of Consciousness: Essays on the Unity of Mind and Matter'. It is a fascinating read for a skeptic who is open to be convinced. However, I would like to read a counter argument.
As no non-dualism follower has ever set out their working hypothesis for their religious belief system, on this forum, there is nothing for any skeptic to debunk or make a counter argument against.


Gosh, isn't that a bummer, I've got no one to argue with but myself. Good observation Matt, pow pow, take that you fiend, I really mean friend...albeit imagined.

Ooh, hang on, which is which, who do i like to be the most, my fiend or my friend ..and how do i tell the difference except through preference...ooh, i'm such a fickle one...what role shall i take on today, its no fun being by myself, i better invent an imaginary friend to keep me amused.


Matthew Ellard wrote:It would be a waste of time to try argue against something that the non-dualism followers, themselves, can't even set down on paper.

Arguing against nothing or debunking nothing can be a lonely and fruitless activity Matt, best not bother.

But if some symbols on a piece of paper reveals something to you that is of value then go for it, ....even though real intelligence tells us that the map is never the actual territory...every fool knows that.

The territory is already you, but if you feel like you need to remember that because you've perhaps forgotten, you've always got the recording to fall back on, you know the evidence of your own knowledge.

The moral of the story Matt, is never try to con a con.


No, bro, you imagining him being your friend or not, being 'one' with you or not, being 'another you' or not, doesn't matter, really, he is separate from you and not linked to you anyway, we're just mocking the nonsense of you bro :|, you can't find friends here, but you can find them on David Icke forum, go there and talk how many mandela effects you found today

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Gord » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:08 am

placid wrote:...I've got no one to argue with but myself....

Aren't you the one who thinks you don't exist?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby placid » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:59 am

Gord wrote:
placid wrote:...I've got no one to argue with but myself....

Aren't you the one who thinks you don't exist?


Yes, because I've never seen a thought.
Something clever should go here.

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Poodle » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:00 pm

You've never had one, let alone seen one.

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:26 pm

placid wrote: Yes, because I've never seen a thought.
No one here thinks you have ever encountered one. :lol:

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:52 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:As no non-dualism follower has ever set out their working hypothesis for their religious belief system, on this forum, there is nothing for any skeptic to debunk or make a counter argument against.

It would be a waste of time to try argue against something that the non-dualism followers, themselves, can't even set down on paper.
Based on observation, none seems to possess the ability to articulate the dogma, at least the ones who post here. Mostly, they post questions and a bunch of ephemeral BS that's as substantive as fog on a windy day.
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"Every philosophy is tinged with the coloring of some secret imaginative background, which never emerges explicitly into its train of reasoning."—Alfred North Whitehead

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:53 pm

placid wrote:Ooh, hang on, which is which, who do i like to be the most, my fiend or my friend ..and how do i tell the difference except through preference.
The letter 'r' should be your first clue.
"Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge."—Carl Sagan

"Every philosophy is tinged with the coloring of some secret imaginative background, which never emerges explicitly into its train of reasoning."—Alfred North Whitehead

"Knowledge belongs to humanity, and is the torch which illuminates the world."—Louis Pasteur

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:55 pm

Dubious wrote:Dualism is nothing more than a duel between heads & tails.
So, then, it should be 'duelism?' :P :duel:
"Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge."—Carl Sagan

"Every philosophy is tinged with the coloring of some secret imaginative background, which never emerges explicitly into its train of reasoning."—Alfred North Whitehead

"Knowledge belongs to humanity, and is the torch which illuminates the world."—Louis Pasteur

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Re: where is the critical analysis on advaita vedanta?

Postby Dubious » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:12 am

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Dubious wrote:Dualism is nothing more than a duel between heads & tails.
So, then, it should be 'duelism?' :P :duel:


I think even that would be more apropos than all the silly philosophic crap that's heaped on the concept. What has it ever achieved? Rhetorical question only!


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